• Posted 12/19/2024.
    =====================

    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Sanctions to dissuade toxic users?

Occidentalis

Occidentalis

Evolutionary Biology
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I appreciate all the work the moderators do to keep this place running smoothly and respectfully. It's a welcome relief from the facebook style drama and nonsense that seem so rampant. I know that's no accident and I try to support this place as much as I can within my means.

That being said, I think there is a problem with toxic posting that threatens this. Responses to valid criticism are sometimes met with lackadaisical off topic posts, sometimes even including personal public records in an attempt to shame the users about their personal lives. I have reported these posts when I think they are absolutely out of line, but it is a general problem. This isn't an issue of disagreement, it's an obvious troll scenario where the troll is baiting other members, and it's a respect issue. Maybe what I'm asking for is just the "respond to other users with respect" infraction to be given out more liberally? I wish I had a better operational fix, but it's really a "know it when you see it" kind of thing. It really used to only be an issue with low post volume scammers, and was dealt with quite quickly. Unfortunately now that's not the case. The very nature of troll/baiting posts elicits a response, often negative, because it gets the blood boiling. When it comes right down to it, the quality of discourse on this website is degraded by allowing users of this caliber to continue unabated, especially if it's accompanied by large amounts of green chiclets.
 
One of the forums I help admin has a "Miserablize" (or similar word) option that can be assigned to a user. Basically it makes the web site respond so slowly that eventually the user gives up trying to access it and finds other places to troll.

I think it's a built-in UBB thing so it may already be an available here.
 
I agree. For some, this is a very literal "pay to play" game where they can pay $25 to dole out negative karma and troll other users, with no end game in mind other than sowing chaos.

There are some ways that this balances itself out. Posts in the BOI can't be deleted or edited, so other members are made aware of the true personality of some members. But when that person doesn't care what the community thinks, and only wants to harass people until being temporarily banned again, there is no benefit in keeping them around.
 
I agree with Alex. There is Facebook level trolling by some members here that is simply toxic to the community. I'm not sure how this can be dealt with objectively, but it's apparent that temporary bans have not changed the behavior of repeat offenders. I like Melinda's idea, but that would only slow, not stop, the trolling.
 
To be clear I'm not suggesting an outright ban on a specific person, just maybe a more liberal application of the respect clause, or something similar effectively. Maybe more points for a respect infraction? Like I said I wish I had a better answer so it sounds less like "bitching" with no proposed solution, but I felt strongly enough that it was a problem that was worth bringing up.
 
I agree that some behaviors here are toxic to the community. Perhaps now that we have an additional mod there can be more attention given, infractions given, and bans when necessary and earned by poor behavior.
There have been times when I think instead of being a troll, one person fitting the description of this thread possibly has a serious drinking problem or similar, because at times the person can be quite charming. That of course is not an excuse to hurt the community, but I hope that all people in that sort of situation get help, if that is what they are actually crying out for.
 
bcr229 said:
One of the forums I help admin has a "Miserablize" (or similar word) option that can be assigned to a user. Basically it makes the web site respond so slowly that eventually the user gives up trying to access it and finds other places to troll.

I think it's a built-in UBB thing so it may already be an available here.
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I'm not sure if I agree with that as a solution. I believe those who have behavior that is inappropriate and against site rules should be presented with a clear and particular reprimand and consequence matching the seriousness of the misbehavior, so that if they subsequently choose to behave they may again participate in the community.
 
Helenthereef said:
Simply ignoring it seems to be working on at least one thread.... (warning, this is in "Hell")

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550073
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The problem with that is that there are so many people here who are new to Fauna or the Internet in general that don't understand the concept of ignoring trolls, or who aren't mentally prepared to do so. It ends up being disruptive because no matter what, at least one person (or more) will fall for those tactics.
 
Lucille said:
There have been times when I think instead of being a troll, one person fitting the description of this thread possibly has a serious drinking problem or similar, because at times the person can be quite charming.
Click to expand...

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing a couple days ago, but my mind went to multiple personality disorder.

It still is no excuse, and why people who have insults thrown at them for no reason end up receiving identical sanctions for simply responding to the "troll" and defending themselves is beyond me. How those two people end up receiving the same repercussions I would love to know.

At the point where a mod says that they don't care that another member is calling someone a child molester and making multiple posts about it, I start to have a problem. That's beyond trolling and beyond anything that I would consider acceptable behavior in ANY setting.
 
MCMB-2 said:
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing a couple days ago, but my mind went to multiple personality disorder.
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Glad I'm not the only one, except it was bipolar and the meds need to be adjusted. I have a friend like this - when his meds are right he's pleasant to be around. When they aren't, his mouth ends up getting him into trouble.
 
MCMB-2 said:
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing a couple days ago, but my mind went to multiple personality disorder.

It still is no excuse, and why people who have insults thrown at them for no reason end up receiving identical sanctions for simply responding to the "troll" and defending themselves is beyond me. How those two people end up receiving the same repercussions I would love to know.

At the point where a mod says that they don't care that another member is calling someone a child molester and making multiple posts about it, I start to have a problem. That's beyond trolling and beyond anything that I would consider acceptable behavior in ANY setting.
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Because when I have to step into a mess, I'm really not interested in reading dozens of posts to try to figure out who started it. Quite likely I just followed a reported post notice and have fallen into the middle of a bunch of crap whereby I may read a couple of posts before and a couple after, and that is it. By that time BOTH participants are likely acting in a manner that appears to require action to be taken.

No one is forced to reply to taunts from another member and try to one up with their own taunts. That is like being pulled over for street racing and telling the cop that the other guy started it. You BOTH were racing by the time the cop pulled you over. Matter of fact, if such a person is highlighted by their own behavior substantially different from everyone else's, then it just makes things easier to determine a singular person who needs to be moderated. If 10 people are engaging in a similar fashion, then the effort to then isolate the actual ring leader becomes more effort than I care to expend and the only logical solution is to treat all 10 people exactly the same because they APPEAR exactly the same. So in short, if you act like a bird of a feather, you are quite likely going to be treated as a bird of a feather. Choose to take the high road, please.
 
The way I see it, trolling is more like one person driving around smashing mailboxes, and the other person speeding to cut the offender off and block him in. Yes, they both broke laws but one is obviously wrong and disrespectful/destructive and the other was trying to help. A police officer called to the scene but that can't be bothered to investigate the situation based on the difference probably would not be expected to make a good decision on what fair punishment for both actually was.
 
WebSlave said:


No one is forced to reply to taunts from another member and try to one up with their own taunts.... Choose to take the high road, please.
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This is excellent advice that trolling and otherwise toxic people strive to make us all forget or ignore.
 
Occidentalis said:
The way I see it, trolling is more like one person driving around smashing mailboxes, and the other person speeding to cut the offender off and block him in. Yes, they both broke laws but one is obviously wrong and disrespectful/destructive and the other was trying to help. A police officer called to the scene but that can't be bothered to investigate the situation based on the difference probably would not be expected to make a good decision on what fair punishment for both actually was.
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Which brings up a point quite likely missed by most people here. We are NOT investigators. We just run this site and try to moderate discussions.

adjective
1. kept or keeping within reasonable or proper limits; not extreme, excessive, or intense:
a moderate price.
2. of medium quantity, extent, or amount:
a moderate income.
3. mediocre or fair:
moderate talent.
4. calm or mild, as of the weather.
5. of or relating to moderates, as in politics or religion.
noun
6. a person who is moderate in opinion or opposed to extreme views and actions, especially in politics or religion.
7. (usually initial capital letter) a member of a political party advocating moderate reform.
verb (used with object), moderated, moderating.
8. to reduce the excessiveness of; make less violent, severe, intense, or rigorous:
to moderate the sharpness of one's words.
9. to preside over or at (a public forum, meeting, discussion, etc.).
verb (used without object), moderated, moderating.
10. to become less violent, severe, intense, or rigorous.
11. to act as moderator; preside.
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It's not really normally a matter of "can't be bothered", as much as "why should we?" Does it really matter who started it, when it was started, why it was started, or whether any one of the people engaging in unpleasant behavior were doing so with self perceived "good intentions"?
 
MCMB-2 said:
At the point where a mod says that they don't care that another member is calling someone a child molester and making multiple posts about it, I start to have a problem.
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I highly doubt any mod here stated that. If we, as mods, didn't care, we wouldn't give up our own time to try to help out the site.
 
Karma seems to have been used very effectively on one little troll whose extensive array of green chicklets seem to have just turned an ominous red.....
 
Helenthereef said:
Karma seems to have been used very effectively on one little troll whose extensive array of green chicklets seem to have just turned an ominous red.....
Click to expand...

Is that a result of a moderator action, or directly from users. Intuitively, you'd think the green boxes would reduce in number, to zero, then start up again as red. But I have no idea how it actually works.
 
AbsoluteApril said:
I highly doubt any mod here stated that. If we, as mods, didn't care, we wouldn't give up our own time to try to help out the site.
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Rich was actually the one who said it. I can post the pm if you want, but I was told that it's not his job to babysit and if someone wants to call me a child molester that it's not his problem and I should deal with it (might be a little off on the wording, this was over a month ago). Shortly after this I was banned.

One WOULD highly doubt that, wouldn't they? Yet it happened. Again, I can post the message, but I really don't want to make this topic about me. We all know who this thread is about.

Not sure how any of my ban time was deserved, but if I have to take a month ban to put a stop to another member being completely out of line so be it. You can ban me for life if it means he'll be gone too, people like him make everyone hate the hobby. If you're going to let people like him act that way and not do anything I don't want to be a part of this site anyway.

I see that something was finally done, but that doesn't change the fact that I was punished for standing up to him and finally getting something to happen. Whatever the case, it was a small price to pay. I just don't look at this site like I used to and probably never will again. Drop in the bucket, eh?
 
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