Sanctions to dissuade toxic users?

[WebSlave]

Please don't misunderstand Rich, I'm way past the point of being obsessed or caring.

Uh, yeah, SURE you are.....

 

[WebSlave]

I went past being upset a couple weeks ago. It had nothing to do with the fact that I received infractions, I've received them in the past (from you as a matter of fact) and almost always sent a pm shortly after apologizing and saying I was out of line. Notice I didn't do that this time?

I was upset because of how inconsistent the information I received from different mods were, and how every time I did what one moderator said I received infractions or a ban from another. After I realized that being upset isn't going to change anything I got over it. Just wanted to point it out since up until now only the mods and myself were aware of it.

All I did was stand up to Tom because everyone else was afraid to. Like I said, I would have taken a lifetime ban if it meant getting him one as well. What he was doing was out of line and somebody had to put a stop to it. Simple as that.

Just for the record, all of the mods here act independently of all the others. We don't hold conferences to try to decide if something is worthy of an infraction. Any moderator if free to make that decision on their own. Sometimes there might be a disagreement over such an action, and in some cases a moderator will rethink the issue and rescind the infraction. Heck, I've reconsidered my own actions many times and reversed my decisions. It happens with all of us. But no moderator is beholden to any others to clear their actions prior to engaging them. Just as none are required to agree with any other moderator about such actions.

And no, ALL you did was not just to stand up to Tom. What you did was to proceed to make yourself a pain in the butt to the moderators. You gave us TWO problem members that needed to be dealt with. YOU dealt the hand that you played.

And you had discussions with the mods all along? And they told you to take an inch and you interpreted that as you should take a mile? What makes you think they want to spend all their time discussing YOUR actions with you? I'm sure the mods are pretty much like me in that we wish we had nothing to do here concerning moderation. You think we LIKE spending our time dealing with problem people on this site? And we certainly do not need anyone thinking that because the moderation team is not acting in a manner consistent with, or as fast as they would like, that THEY should pick up the sword and try to slay that dragon they perceive threatening the community.

YOU raised a red flag to me by your continuous string of reported posts. That was excessive, by a LARGE margin. I really don't care that YOU think they were justified, I'm telling you that your actions were not. I think most reasonable people would understand that going back to find the last dozen or so posts from someone they are having a pissing contest with and reporting them like each report is going to be a nail in that person's coffin, is probably not a real wise idea. You went on all of the moderators' radar as an incoming hostile and it was only a matter of time before one of us banned you.

So you stood up to Tom thinking everyone was afraid of him? Maybe others were more cognizant of the fact that ignoring him was likely the better method of dealing with him. So the next time you want to take on someone, please use private messages or email and don't try to make a spectacle of yourself in public in that pursuit. That is the sort of thing that we HAVE to moderate around here.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Uh, yeah, SURE you are.....

I know you'd like to think that the world revolves around this site but I genuinely couldn't care less. I said I'm over it, you can choose to believe me or not.

I'm sure in your head, me getting a ban would make me sit and fester and either regret my actions or get mad and come back "foaming at the mouth" (I believe were your words), but all it did was make me apathetic. Like I said, the first couple days I honestly was mad, then I got over it and started focusing on selling snakes elsewhere.

How I look at this site changed. Maybe it will change back, who knows. Don't really care right now. Like I said, tell yourself whatever makes you feel better, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I actually forgot when my ban was up, I started looking around for a caramel tiger jag carpet male and thought to look on here, otherwise I wouldn't have even known. I'm sure you'd like to think I marked it on my calendar and had an alert put on my phone, but I'm sorry to say that it just didn't even cross my mind (never found that male by the way).

Que sera, sera. Life goes on.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Sorry, meant a caramel tiger male, my females both have jag in them and some of the babies would be lethal. Seems like half a dozen people have caramel tiger jags but no one has what I want.

 

[WebSlave]

I know you'd like to think that the world revolves around this site but I genuinely couldn't care less. I said I'm over it, you can choose to believe me or not.

I'm sure in your head, me getting a ban would make me sit and fester and either regret my actions or get mad and come back "foaming at the mouth" (I believe were your words), but all it did was make me apathetic. Like I said, the first couple days I honestly was mad, then I got over it and started focusing on selling snakes elsewhere.

How I look at this site changed. Maybe it will change back, who knows. Don't really care right now. Like I said, tell yourself whatever makes you feel better, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I actually forgot when my ban was up, I started looking around for a caramel tiger jag carpet male and thought to look on here, otherwise I wouldn't have even known. I'm sure you'd like to think I marked it on my calendar and had an alert put on my phone, but I'm sorry to say that it just didn't even cross my mind (never found that male by the way).

Que sera, sera. Life goes on.

Quite honestly, once someone is banned here, I never really give them a second thought. If they are not here, they are not my concern nor of any interest to me. Had you not come back, I never would have noticed and not lost a moment of sleep over it.

People who get banned have gotten themselves into that predicament because they proved to be acting in a manner that this site can happily do without. It's normally a temporary ban because it is hoped that the ban will encourage someone who wants to come back to change their mannerisms to be compatible with this site. If they don't and work themselves up to getting banned again, it can be made permanent. What the heck do I need troublemakers around here for? So to them I simply say "good riddance". And to those who do not come back after the temp ban expires, then the same sentiment applies. That means to me that they have decided to refuse to change their mannerisms, and under that circumstance my life will be just fine without them.

Nope I don't think the world revolves around this site, and really could not care less about such a thing. It's just a website. One of just zillions of others out there. I really don't care one bit what someone does when they get banned except I want them to stay gone from here while the ban is in effect. Other than that, nope, never gave you a single thought while you were banned. There is no truer adage here to me than "out of sight, out of mind."

BTW, for someone who is "over it" you sure do seem to be taking a lot of time here dwelling on this incident. Quite honestly, your tirade here does appear to me to have a bit of frothing at the mouth involved. Apparently you wanted this discussion to focus on you, and now that you have that, you seem all intent to try to convince everyone that you really don't care about this at all.

 

[LauraB]

... Like I said, I'm over it. My nonsense threshold has been exceeded, I'd ask for an explanation but there isn't one.

Again, nonsense. Too ridiculous for me to care about it.

... Please don't try to justify this, it's beyond ridiculous. I already told you, there's a certain level of nonsense I can handle and I went way past it a month ago.

Please don't misunderstand Rich, I'm way past the point of being obsessed or caring.

I know you'd like to think that the world revolves around this site but I genuinely couldn't care less. I said I'm over it, you can choose to believe me or not.

No, the world obviously should revolve around your multiple "I don't care" posts here in this thread which you made about you and your indignation at being banned for abuse of the regulations. Hell, I have an infraction that Rich gave me in 2014 that doesn't expire until 2016 (not counting the ones I've received over the years that have expired). You ever see me whining about it?

If you don't care and are "over it", then quit whining!

 

[LauraB]

Sorry, Rich ... didn't know you had already posted.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Kept getting email notifications, that's the only reason I came back and responded. Unsubscribed now. You'll all be ok

Laura, last time you said I was whining it was about a thread where someone bred a female at about half the proper size and I ended up having to euthanize the babies. Posted a rant saying how stupid that person was. I think you need to look up the definition of whining lol, you don't seem to understand what it actually is (in case that's too much work for you, whining = complaining. Feel free to figure out where I'm complaining in any of those quotes )

 

[snowgyre]

The professional victimization act does get tiring. Righteous indignation doesn't make anyone immune to the rules.

Also, you claimed that you were the only one who was "not afraid to stand up to Tom." There's a difference between the fear of retribution versus the wisdom of knowing when to let sleeping dogs lie. My guess is that the majority of folks perceived (correctly) the latter to be the proper course of action.

To borrow a quote from a movie:
Question: "Why do you like to irritate me so?"
Response: "Why do you rise to the occasion?"

 

[Beyond GenetiX]

Kept getting email notifications, that's the only reason I came back and responded. Unsubscribed now. You'll all be ok

All that is missing is the hashtag.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

This thread definitely went in a direction I didn't anticipate. I am, and always have been, satisfied with how the website is run. It has more integrity than Facebook groups do. I've worked as a moderator on a very large website, and I know that things are rarely able to be resolved in such a manner that leaves both parties happy.

It is generally my practice to ignore trolls, though once in a while I will get riled up enough to tell them what I really think. But I also try to follow the site rules when I do that.

My main concern here wasn't personal vengeance, just that certain people persist in being disruptive to the reptile community, and I would really like to see them permanently removed from it. There is so much drama, whether I get personally involved or not. And there are so many new owners that are bullied or tricked into responding to trolls without realizing what's happening.

 

[LauraB]

I think you need to look up the definition of whining lol, you don't seem to understand what it actually is (in case that's too much work for you, whining = complaining. Feel free to figure out where I'm complaining in any of those quotes )

LOL, your entire presence in this thread has been your whining=complaining about your temporary ban and continually expressing how you "are over it".

One who is "over it" does not continually post same, while continually playing the "victim" card and continually questioning/accusing those in charge ... especially if one seemingly cannot comprehend the very basic rules, regulations and warnings already easily at their disposal, not to mention how to utilize their own UserCP.

 

[WebSlave]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to look up on dictionary.com the definition of "whining":

WHINE

[hwahyn, wahyn]

verb (used without object), whined, whining.
1. to utter a low, usually nasal, complaining cry or sound, as from uneasiness, discontent, peevishness, etc.:
The puppies were whining from hunger.
2. to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way:
He is always whining about his problems.

verb (used with object), whined, whining.
3. to utter with or as if with a whine:
I whined my litany of complaints.

noun
4. a whining utterance, sound, or tone.
5. a feeble, peevish complaint.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whining?s=t

I guess everyone can come to their own conclusion about which definition is more accurate.

 

[Lucille]

It seems to me that many people don't think through what real strength is all about.
Sometimes when someone is corrected their immediate response is to dig in their heels and defend themselves. I think someone who is really strong and confident will take the opportunity to take a look at the situation, assess what happened, and realize and admit when they are wrong.

We are all wrong from time to time. None of us is perfect. It is not a show of strength to defend a mistake. It IS a show of strength to realize one was wrong, admit an error and move on.

 

[Mistyck]

Sheesh. For someone that was so "over it" he sure had a lot of gripes up his sleeve about what happened to him.

He could have been mature and accepted why he was TEMPORARILY banned, yet instead he comes on the thread and tries to turn it into his own agenda. And tries to convince everyone who reads it that he is indeed "over it."

Here's my take on his indignation of things (and my response, not that it matters):

I'm sorry, but if you can't take responsibility for YOUR actions and see that YOUR actions have consequences as well, then maybe you shouldn't be on a public forum where your actions can; and are put on display for everyone to make their own opinions about. And if you couldn't care less about this site, then maybe you should leave; considering you said you sold more snakes in the last 3 weeks of your ban, (that you didn't keep track of); maybe it was a good thing for you to not be on this site.

You're so caught up with being a "right fighter" that you can't see past the end of your nose at what is being shown to you. Instead you insist on telling everyone how you just don't understand why your actions led to you getting a ban. It's the moderators issues, not yours. Apparently you did nothing wrong, and it's all the moderators fault because they told you to report the post, but didn't explain to you that you only need to report it one time; not every dang post. So because they didn't lay it out to you in such a way that a 2 year old would understand, it's their fault and not yours. Yes we get it; you want no responsibility in getting yourself banned. But you still want the ability to come back to the forum that you feel wronged you and tell everyone that you were wronged, and it's not your fault. We get it.

You say that you're "over it", that you "couldn't care less" and countless others; yet you're not. You're livid that it happened and you are acting so indignant about it that you can't see straight. It's very obvious in every post that you've done in this thread. And I think the smartest thing you've done is to say that you've "Unsubscribed." But you're still not happy, and quite frankly, you're butt-hurt because you couldn't even leave that post alone without having to add a jibe:

You'll all be ok

So yes, while we will be ok; I doubt you will be. It's obviously something that you aren't "over" and judging from all your posts, you won't be any time soon. But when you've actually gotten past things, you might just see that you had something to do with your own ban. (Something tells me not, but there's always hope.)

Have a great morning and weekend!

 

[hhmoore]

<grumble> This is a somewhat condensed version of the post I had nearly completed when my tablet decided to shut down. </grumble>

Back to the original topic:
Yes, there are sanctions - in the form of infractions, temporary bans, and permanent bans - however, some people simply aren't phased by the process. It isn't really all that difficult to take just enough of the edge of a post to avoid an infraction. Some people enjoy that dance...but, while a handful have a flair for it, many just become annoying. It isn't always as easy as we (or you) would like it to be to deal with those situations because a person can make 10 posts in an exchange, none of which, when viewed singly, merit an infraction; but, when viewed collectively, they are obviously abusive and antagonistic in intent. Typically, infractions are post based - so when the individual posts don't cross that line, there's little to do (at first).
Then, of course, there's the matter of responses...welcome to the internet, people want to get involved. Think about it - the agitators do hit and runs. Stir the pot, then lay low for a while - let other people get worked up and respond. That takes some of the heat off them because there are other people actively engaging...and if those people aren't conscious of the line, so much the better. The waters get muddied; it becomes difficult to say just where that line gets crossed. At that point, from a moderator's perspective, it's better/easier to simply post a warning than to get mired in the mess while trying to sort through the details and justify infractions.
FWIW, we get just as annoyed/frustrated as you do. We can share the collective thought, wishing the person was just banned already; but we still have to be able to justify that action according to the rulebook.