One year anniversary of the closing of the Board Of Inquiry

[WebSlave]

It was a year ago today that I closed down the BOI and I guess I am interested in feedback concerning how this impacted YOUR use, value of, and/or perception of this site.

This thread has been prompted from the number of BOI-style posts that have had to be deleted from this site, infractions that posters of said posts have incurred as a result of making such posts, and the number of emails, PMs, and comments elsewhere I have gotten concerning people asking about how they can alert other members about the predations of spammers using this site in an attempt to snare victims. MY concern is that this site could be moving in the direction of becoming an attractive haven for scammers because of the rules now in place concerning BOI style postings no longer being allowed anywhere on this site. Basically they can advertise free and clear of anyone calling them out in any manner. Honestly, I'm not sure if I am looking at a tip of an iceberg, or perhaps a molehill that I am too close to that because of my close proximity, looks like it is a mountain.

So I am soliciting feedback for opinions and observations. No, the BOI is not coming back. Nothing has changed concerning the reasons it was closed down. But is there some alternative way to keep the scammers from having their way with the unwary membership via another method? Would allowing warning-based replies to classified ads be worthwhile in this pursuit, or would it just be more headaches than it is worth? Not that I expect anything to be headache-free here, of course. But I am uncomfortable at the thought that this site could very well may have turned 180 degrees from being what was once considered a relatively safe place to do business for the membership.

So please provide some constructive input, if you can. If there is no, or very darn little, input of any kind, I will just have to assume that everything is just honky-dory here for most people and put this thought behind me, leaving well enough alone. Wouldn't be the first time that what I was thinking I was observing was not actually reality.

And please note that even though I am soliciting suggestions, not everything suggested will be practical or even possible. This is not suggesting it would be a bad idea, just that there are limits to what CAN be done here programmatically, as well as what I WANT here to be sitting on my shoulders as an implied responsibility. I am trying to help as best I can, but not looking for more work to do.

Thanks.

 

[Randall Turner]

I do miss the boi when I see something I'd like to work with but the seller is someone im unfamiliar with. It would be nice if the people who have had transactions with other users would use the trader rating system. If there would be a way to increase its usage, it could be a safety net for users.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

On another forum I frequent (one dealing with dart frogs) the seller-background-questions go like this: someone posts "Hey, has anyone bought anything from "John's Awesome Frogs, LLC"? How did it go?", and a mod quickly posts "PM the OP" and locks the thread. Clunky, but it works (though it is rarely used). Having those threads in an automatically-locking forum would be ideal, I think. No badmouthing on the public forums, but some people might get some info that will save them a lot of grief.

I assume you don't want anything to do with anything BOI related, but if you thought something like this might take the pressure off the mods having to ban people regularly, or might reduce the yammering over the loss of the BOI, it might be worth considering. Just a humble suggestion, and you can ignore it and not hurt my feelings.

I suggested this a while back, and I still support it. It is still clunky and infrequently used over there, but it likely has pointed a few novices in the right direction. I think that is a good thing if we want these hobbies to grow productively and benefit the hobbyists. The more people are afraid of ordering herps online because they feel powerless, the more we all lose.

 

[tiffanymb88]

Because of the run ins with scammers and issues with buyers, I don’t feel comfortable making purchases from buyers on this site. If there were reviews or BOI posts it may make myself and other buyers more likely to use this for searching and purchasing


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[tiffanymb88]

Because of the run ins with scammers and issues with buyers, I don’t feel comfortable making purchases from sellers on this site. If there were reviews or BOI posts it may make myself and other buyers more likely to use this for searching and purchasing


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[gregtp]

I not only support this but have received an infraction for attempting to provide such warning even when I could prove everything 100% I can only imagine if he was able to con more people this has happened twice on this forum I feel all this does is promote scandalous behavior as there is no way of warning others thus being penalty free to scam as much as they want this would definitely help newcomers and old timers as well as when people get scammed they tend to leave/avoid the entire sight altogether but that's my 2 cents

 

[bcr229]

As long as members follow the other site rules, e.g. no disruptive posting or personal attacks, I don't see a problem with allowing members to post feedback responses on a seller's ads.

 

[DrummingT]

The intolerance for discussion in the classifieds is off-putting in a big way. I was definitely shocked to get a warning for just relaying my experience with one prolific seller.

I don't think I've left a comment on the site since.

 

[GordonGecko]

The amount of scammers on this site is the reason why I don't go on here anymore. I've never had 1 issue on MM.

 

[Pauls Cool Scales]

I was also very shocked and put off to get an infraction when I did and haven't been able to wrap my head around why. Why wouldn't there be a good policy for posting feedback on buyers and sellers? I fully behind the effort to create one. It is just part of what should automatically be on a site such as this. And scammers are an issue. If a policy for posting feedback on buyers and sellers could deter them in any way then it's a plus. Sure there will be headaches with those who take it too far or abuse the privilege but it's just part of a necessary aspect. It can be tweaked. There can be moderators to moderate. Please do it. For the majority who are just trying to use this site as it's meant to be used.

 

[Aboriginereptile]

I used to frequent this site and purchase quite a few animals here, as many true hobby breeders were found on here, as well as rare finds for animals. I have not been back for a few years, as I left the hobby for a bit. I came back here, and was almost scammed 3 times in the first month. Then when I tried to stop them, I received an infraction. Kingmake.com went down a similar path and they are a shadow of what they were. Using some sort of seller rating and review platform would be helpful. I do not feel safe on here, and honestly the threads and posts are very confusing, with people posting replies, and it moving old posts to the top. It is very difficult to navigate as well avoid scams.

 

[AppEcto]

I don't know what solutions you might be willing to go for, but my perspective is that there has been a negative change since the BOI was scrapped. I've noticed someone with a tarnished reputation posting regularly in recent months but he disappeared from fauna when the BOI existed and his bad feedback was on display. It's certainly a much safer environment for scammers now without their past misdeeds being documented for potential buyers to see.

 

[WebSlave]

For those of you who might have missed the thread detailing the reasons the BOI was closed down, I suggest that you give it a read -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680507

Nothing has changed here that will bring back the BOI you all used to know. The peer pressure and financial support that the BOI needed evaporated and as best I can tell, is certainly not coming back. So I am sorry, but you cannot expect me to take the risk on my shoulders of frivolous but still expensive lawsuits for YOU to expose me to by your postings here if you (collectively) are not taking up the bulk of that weight. Been there, done that, and that ship has left the dock..

What I am looking for is an alternative method of keeping the scammers on their toes and on the defensive. Maybe even create an overtly hostile environment for them. I have been discussing this with the moderators, and I approached this with the possible intention of allowing review style post replies in the classified ads themselves (which has NEVER in the past been allowed here) that someone is posting. This would hopefully have the result of such ads placed by alleged "bad guys" being plagued with negative comments and reviews, and as such they will HAVE to delete their ads, and hopefully leave the site when they find that none of their ads can attract victims any longer because the bad press just constantly nips at their heels.

There are issues and details to be ironed out, of course.

Scammers are always changing their identities on the fly. It will be work for YOU all to keep tabs on them. We are not going to do that for you. And obviously you will be posting reviews and comments in threads that the original author can delete at will. That deletion capability is just inherent in the classified sections, and will needfully remain there for something like this to work without exposing me to possible litigation (again).

Things that still will not be allowed is someone posting a thread anywhere with topic lines such as "Avoid JOE BLOW, as he is a scammer!", or "Has anyone done business with JOE BLOW?" Those were topics relevant to the Board of Inquiry, not the classified ads sections. So in effect, JOE BLOW must post a classified ad here first before such claims or questions could be made.

One issue noted is that members posting classified ad threads can lock their ads via the Classifieds Control Panel. That function may possibly go away. Or if the code can be modified easily enough, maybe try to filter out the "bad guys" using that function to shield their ads from negative replies by limiting that function to paying members only. Most scammers are highly unlikely to pay for a membership on this site so that would automatically remove the function from their use. At least from what I have seen here, that has been the case.

I am also looking for other options, but please understand that I am not going to be spending buckets of money for complicated and expensive custom programming for this. Yes, revenue has dropped in the past year, and as such, I am not going to be throwing money that just isn't there at the problem. As I stated in the above referenced thread, if I find that this site cannot survive without the BOI and it is already on a death spiral, and my choice would be to either open up the BOI again and take on that financial risk as a result (which could become a financial death spiral to me, personally), or just let the site slide on down the tubes and be gone, I am afraid that my choice is clear.

So the question is really, can we use what we have and try to make the site less welcoming to scammers by some simple and easy changes in policy and minor changes to existing programming? I don't know, but that is what I am looking for. Something that can be implemented without subjecting me to financial risk, and pretty much puts the responsibility squarely in the hands of the people involved in the transactions they engage in here. Both you and the OP can edit and delete your own words in classified ads. Or at least that would be the plan. So the responsibility and liability for your words, as well as control over them, will be yours, not mine.

Anyway, there you go. Yes,I understand that it is a pretty narrow bridge I am fleshing out, but if anyone has ideas and suggestions, I am willing to take a look at them.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Maybe even create an overtly hostile environment for them. I have been discussing this with the moderators, and I approached this with the possible intention of allowing review style post replies in the classified ads themselves (which has NEVER in the past been allowed here) that someone is posting. This would hopefully have the result of such ads placed by alleged "bad guys" being plagued with negative comments and reviews, and as such they will HAVE to delete their ads, and hopefully leave the site when they find that none of their ads can attract victims any longer because the bad press just constantly nips at their heels.

This is a great idea, IMO.

Like you mention, posters have to use it judiciously and skillfully -- not just "This sucks! Arghh!!" like even some replies to this thread are framed (constructive suggestions were requested, but only some repliers took the trouble to do so).

Personally, I'd find the inability to lock ads a slight loss to me as a seller (I do it to eliminate the questions from lowballers and people who simply haven't read the ad that should take place over PM, or not at all), but I wouldn't complain a bit given the overall benefit it would have under this plan.

Thank you for trying to make the best of a very difficult situation, Rich. I miss the BOI, too, but you tolerated the fallout from it longer than anyone would have, and you made this community better in doing so. We all owe you.

 

[gregtp]

Nothing has changed here that will bring back the BOI you all used to know. The peer pressure and financial support that the BOI needed evaporated and as best I can tell, is certainly not coming back. So I am sorry, but you cannot expect me to take the risk on my shoulders of frivolous but still expensive lawsuits for YOU to expose me to by your postings here if you (collectively) are not taking up the bulk of that weight. Been there, done that, and that ship has left the dock..

then what exactly are you hoping to achieve with this thread without a BOI or a form of accountability you are complicit in the scamming we have already had this talk in dm's so you know where I stand on that so I only see revenue falling till this site is completely unreliable as there is no moderation unless it's someone trying to do right that I have noticed I am sorry if it seems blunt but I don't sugar coat nothing

 

[WebSlave]

then what exactly are you hoping to achieve with this thread without a BOI or a form of accountability you are complicit in the scamming we have already had this talk in dm's so you know where I stand on that so I only see revenue falling till this site is completely unreliable as there is no moderation unless it's someone trying to do right that I have noticed I am sorry if it seems blunt but I don't sugar coat nothing

I regret that what I typed concerning my proposed plan in this thread is not clear to you. Perhaps someone else can explain it better, as obviously I am unable to do that task to your liking.

As for me being "complicit in the scamming", I guess many people would like some sort of safety net when things don't go as well as they had hoped. And probably for free, no less?

Just out of curiosity, just what is this "accountability" you desire concerning who and what you want me to be responsible for? And why do you think such a burden should be on my shoulders? Why should I be responsible for YOUR decisions? Did I twist your arm or threaten you in any way to make such decisions? Seriously, what leads you to believe that I should be responsible instead of you for YOUR decisions?

I am presuming that you are defining "moderation" as being "require others doing what I want them to do for ME." If that is the case, sorry, this is probably not your cup of tea.

FYI, the moderators do quite a bit here, which apparently you are oblivious to. I am sorry, but hand holding the members is not part of their volunteer duties.

 

[gregtp]

well the simple fact nothing at all is done makes you complicit yes you run the site therefore this all falls on your shoulders if it is to difficult to provide your users with a safety net maybe it is time to shut it down as it is clear you only care about the money and not your end users it is apparent I struck a nerve by your tone hey if something I say bothers you hmmm it must be true

 

[gregtp]

and as for holding my hand I don't need that at all I just prefer an admin does what they should do it's not that hard to understand really your end users should come first you have made is crystal clear you care less about end users by allowing this like I said maybe you should consider just shutting it down if you can't even provide simple security measures

 

[gregtp]

imo there should be a terms of service for the forums everyone must accept persons and companies that allow a review system without the legality issues

 

[boamaster]

Feedback

I do believe we need something that protects buyers
And sellers it needs to be something simple
With no personal remarks
Just maybe something
Like a fillable checklist of the trsnacation
On both behalfs
Nothing long and drawn out
Where everyone ways in
Being on both sides of situations
Some people roast people for no reason
And without cause
I trust your judgment on finding a fair solution for us
Mark.@boamaster

I received a animal that wasn't as described n sick
And I couldn't let anyone else know
And he still sells here not good

Also did a trade and got stiffed
I had no recourse