is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

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rodneynboalich

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i recently got an email from usark and was concerned with a paragraph in it.

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

the part that bothers me is not so much the pending legislation that i have yet to even hear about but the part about usark setting up (model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.)

1. i havnt heard of any new legislation for reptiles in PA

2. im not aware of usark contacting anyone in the hobby in PA in regards to setting up rules for keeping their animals.

3. i was told usark contacted PA government and told them that PA needs rules and regulations

i guess my question is what gives usark the right to come to my state and suggest imposing rules and regulations without first discussing them with the the people in the industry that live in the state where said rules would be imposed?

i also heard usark set up the rules for NC and i was wondering if i could get that information and look it over since im guessing it will be similar to that usark is suggesting PA should do.

im not trying to start a war here but i do feel that its wrong for any organization to represent an entire state without first consulting the people the rules will affect.

another thing that bothers me is whenever there is money involved the possibility for corruption gos up dramatically. now im not accusing usark of anything but i would like to point out if all the anti reptile legislation went away so would all the money there getting to fight it plus as far as i know there has been no disclosure on their part showing where all the money is going.


thank you
rodney boalich
 
rodneynboalich said:
i recently got an email from usark and was concerned with a paragraph in it.

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

the part that bothers me is not so much the pending legislation that i have yet to even hear about but the part about usark setting up (model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.)

1. i havnt heard of any new legislation for reptiles in PA

2. im not aware of usark contacting anyone in the hobby in PA in regards to setting up rules for keeping their animals.

3. i was told usark contacted PA government and told them that PA needs rules and regulations

i guess my question is what gives usark the right to come to my state and suggest imposing rules and regulations without first discussing them with the the people in the industry that live in the state where said rules would be imposed?

i also heard usark set up the rules for NC and i was wondering if i could get that information and look it over since im guessing it will be similar to that usark is suggesting PA should do.

im not trying to start a war here but i do feel that its wrong for any organization to represent an entire state without first consulting the people the rules will affect.

another thing that bothers me is whenever there is money involved the possibility for corruption gos up dramatically. now im not accusing usark of anything but i would like to point out if all the anti reptile legislation went away so would all the money there getting to fight it plus as far as i know there has been no disclosure on their part showing where all the money is going.


thank you
rodney boalich
Click to expand...
Told by whom and heard what exactly? No this isn't the BOI, however if you're going to make claims of these actions, you should at least tell the whole story:shrug01:
 
a friend of mine told me about usark contacting the PA government. i have no proof of that nor did i claim to. the main issue is that usark is setting up rules for states to enact without talking to the hobbyist in the states first. its right here

USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

this is right from the email i got today
and the micro shipping thing is a joke that has proved to be very dangerous to animals
 
rodneynboalich said:
USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level
Click to expand...


That is an AWESOME idea!!!

I'm sure hobbyists with input are welcome to send it, have you emailed them your thoughts?
 
Lucille said:
That is an AWESOME idea!!!

I'm sure hobbyists with input are welcome to send it, have you emailed them your thoughts?
Click to expand...

yeah i got in a fight with andrew wyat on his facebook page about it. he really didnt answer r any of my questions. so its on here now for everybody to have their say
 
Lucille said:
That is an AWESOME idea!!!

I'm sure hobbyists with input are welcome to send it, have you emailed them your thoughts?
Click to expand...

i really dont see how its an awesome idea when they did it without our imput. keep in mind they are supposed to be fighting for our freedoms not making laws to limit them
 
After hearing about the model legislation, I think maybe I'll look into getting involved with USARK after the new year, hopefully all my house/moving issues will be taking less of my time then.

But I do agree that you should speak your view if you have particular disagreements.



rodneynboalich said:
i really dont see how its an awesome idea when they did it without our imput. keep in mind they are supposed to be fighting for our freedoms not making laws to limit them
Click to expand...


I would be willing to bet that the model legislation was a while in the making, and that then and now your efforts and input would be welcome. You don't need an engraved invite to help the community, you know that many places would be more than happy to have help.
You have an excellent point in that too much legislation is intrusive and unwelcome. But if there is some, there is a lot to be said for it being the same from state to state.
 
rodneynboalich said:
heres a link to me and andrews facbook conversation

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...68663&id=100001537908457&notif_t=feed_comment
Click to expand...

Rodney Boalichposted toAndrew Wyatt
i recently got a email from usark and was concerned about it
Like · · Unfollow Post · See Friendship · 3 hours ago ·

Andrew Wyatt please elaborate....?
2 hours ago · Like
Rodney Boalich i recently got an email from usark and was concerned with a paragraph in it.

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

the part that bothers me is not so much the pending legislation that i have yet to even hear about but the part about usark setting up (model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.)

1. i havnt heard of any new legislation for reptiles in PA

2. im not aware of usark contacting anyone in the hobby in PA in regards to setting up rules for keeping their animals.

3. i was told usark contacted PA government and told them that PA needs rules and regulations

i guess my question is what gives usark the right to come to my state and suggest imposing rules and regulations without first discussing them with the the people in the industry that live in the state where said rules would be imposed?

i also heard usark set up the rules for NC and i was wondering if i could get that information and look it over since im guessing it will be similar to that usark is suggesting PA should do.

im not trying to start a war here but i do feel that its wrong for any organization to represent an entire state without first consulting the people the rules will affect.

another thing that bothers me is whenever there is money involved the possibility for corruption gos up dramatically. now im not accusing usark of anything but i would like to point out if all the anti reptile legislation went away so would all the money there getting to fight it plus as far as i know there has been no disclosure on their part showing where all the money is going.

thank you
rodney boalich
2 hours ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt Rodney you don't seem to be paying a lot of attention to the press in PA. Check out the stories... the most recent one is on my page. I don't represent any states. I represent USARK members. We have about 2000 in PA. Early in the year I stopped a state legislator from introducing a bill that would have outlawed crocodilians, venomous and big constrictors. Do you remember that? I have not been talking to any Legislators in PA about introducing ANY bills... but in the wake of Zanesville if you don't think HSUS is, your wrong. My email was a wake up call for all the states that have introduced something or might be considering it. USARK OPPOSES all reptile bans! PERIOD!! BTW- Your corruption comment was ignorant and asinine. Look on our website we do annual financial reports. Just because you're not paying attention to whats going on around you, don't start slinging accusations you cant support.
2 hours ago · Like
Rodney Boalich what about the rules usark has recommended. did you them discuss with your 2000 PA members.
2 hours ago · Like
Rodney Boalich im a member and i dont recall being ask how i felt about any possible rules for my state
2 hours ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt We have recommended nothing in PA... or any other state. Our members join because they believe we will make sure they can continue to do what they do... Isn't that why you joined?
2 hours ago · Like
Rodney Boalich do didnt set up the rules for NC
2 hours ago · Like
Rodney Boalich you not do
2 hours ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt yes we set up a system of best management practices in NC... that's how uSARK got started. We insured that you can work with any kind of reptile you want to in NC on into the future. No permit, no fees, no registration... and now it is about the best place in the country to have the freedom to do what you want working with reptiles. And it is protected by law...
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich can i get a copy of the NC law
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt it's in the archive section of the USARK website... right next to the financial statements...
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt But we have not proposed that in PA... We havent done anything in PA since shutting down the BAN Bill last Winter.
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich ill look into. if you didnt impose any rules for NC why do you have a set of rules ready to enact for other states
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt Rodney... what are you talking about???? All we have is what we did in NC... and you owe me an apology for coming on my page and accusing me of corruption when you have no earthly idea what you are talking about!
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich i did accuse of anything i said that right in my post
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich this is what you email said.
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich ‎. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich sounds like proposing rules to me
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt I just finished telling you about the BMP's for NC... if you don't believe in what we are doing you don't have to be a member. I havent proposed ANYTHING for PA... do you understand? But USARK definately believes in secure caging, and safety protocols... if you don't, maybe you are about to be the next big negative news story that cripples this industry????
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Andrew Wyatt Hey I know you are worried bro... but I'm not the enemy.
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich when you set up bmp's as a model for states to control and enforce individuals in their personal care of their animals without first discussing these rules with the people in the hobby you or over stepping your rights.
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt We either police ourselves... or they will do it for us Rodney... I guarantee you won't like it if HSUS is calling the shots... I hope I don't see you in the news
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich who are you to come to my state and impose rules. that is not us policing our selves. thats you policing us and the fact that you would impose rules to make hsus happy so they leave us a lone for a little while just gos to show that you dont really care about the industry as a whole. only the special interest of certain people namely the ones writing you those $10,000 checks.
about an hour ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt Are you stupid Rodney... How many times do I have to tell you I have proposed nothing in your state??? I have not proposed ANYTHING in Pennsylvania... all I did was stop the BAN last Winter...
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Rodney, you act as though you are opposed to responsible reptile keeping. I think you're really missing the point here. We need to come together as one voice or it will never be loud enough to be heard. You're picking an argument with the wrong side brother. I'm very surprised you're unaware of all the things going on around you...OH, proposed ban in PA last year, etc.
about an hour ago · Like · 4
Rodney Boalich
why isnt any of that money going to investigate the 15 or so alleged death from big snakes in the last 30 years. maybe if it was brought to the publics attention that people got murdered and it was blamed on pythons that mite help our cas...See More
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich rick you have more snake than almost everyone in the state. if usark is suggesting rules and they get passed you will be hit harder than most.
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles That unfortunate death is not affecting anything going on at the present time. Dragging it back up would only be more fodder for HSUS to play with. I don't want to speak for Andrew or USARK, but spending $ on "investigating" snake deaths would be pointless. By that time all the laws would be passed..
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rick Krumrine Reptiles And to your point, the proposed rules you are referring to are not something that is being proposed, they are simply guidlines. Guidlines which I am perfectly fine with. USARK is fighting for MY right to keep what I currently have legally at this time. They are your friend, not your enemy. Hope you can see that before it's too late...
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich
im all for responsible keeping and im not coming off that way andrew is just trying to twist the augment to make it seem that way because he dosnt want to admit that he went ahead and made a set of rules for states without consulting the ho...See More
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich people need to know that a lot of if not all of those deaths were not caused by snakes. im not saying do a big public investigation just look into it and see what the facts are.
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich as for your guidelines. there not guidelines at all. there laws that come with fines and having your collection taken
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles Well, in my opinion, you're looking at the wrong place to find an argument. The big picture is what really matters. Keep yourself more informed by as many means as possible. And what exactly in the best management practices format do you have issue with?? There is alot of stuff on the horizon...and it's all going to turn out bad if we just sit back as individuals and watch.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rodney Boalich rick your at like every PA show. how are you going to ensure those guidelines to customers. are you going to drill every potential buyer to make sure they have the proper everything
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich its impossible
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles And HSUS doesn't care who is at fault in these "snake deaths"...they'll be happy to just point out that "huge man-eating monster killer snakes" were involved.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rick Krumrine Reptiles I grill all of my customers that are looking at a large python or venomous snake. It's my responsibility to inform them as much as possible. If they decide to do otherwise, that's not on me.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rodney Boalich im all for people being competent keepers. i just dont think usark has the right to come into our state without first talking to the breeders about the laws and rules they are suggesting
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles They aren't.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rick Krumrine Reptiles ‎*bangs head against wall
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rodney Boalich its right in the email i got today here ill post it again
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles Don't waste your time, I have it.
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rick Krumrine Reptiles Are you aware what the other option is????
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rodney Boalich rick did usark talk to you about any of this legislation
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles What legislation??
about an hour ago · Like · 1
Rodney Boalich yeah the other option is put someone in charge of usark that isnt going to back down from the fight and make rules and then suggest them to our state without first talking to us about them
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich USARK has developed model legislation
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich thats right from the email
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich and that a good question
about an hour ago · Like
Rodney Boalich maybe andrew would like to disclose the model legislation to us since we are the ones that will be affected by it
about an hour ago · Like
Rick Krumrine Reptiles It is not proposed legislation...and you can go to their site and read it word for word. The actual proposed legislation that is and has been happening is what you should be worried about. It threatens to take away your animals, not make you a responsible reptile keeper, which you seem to be fighting. I quit...going to go relax and clean cobras and rattlesnakes.....
57 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich this whole situation is a joke. the people that are protecting us are the ones setting up rules for states to enact.
55 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich where on the usark website can i read USARK model legislation
45 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich i cant find it
45 minutes ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt I told you where it was... Reread thread
17 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich i dont see anything on nc or legislation proposal sned me a link. i would really liek to read what usark would suggest my state do
12 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich in regards to reptile laws
12 minutes ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt I'm not suggesting PA do anything.... I'm done... I'm sure that sharp mind of yours will lead you right to it. Not hard to find....
9 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich thaks for your help. all i asked for was a link to the laws you help set up in your state and the ones you would set up in mine
4 minutes ago · Like
Rodney Boalich sorry didnt realize that was too much to ask of the person in charge usark
3 minutes ago · Like
Andrew Wyatt I'm traveling using my phone.... Otherwise I'd hold your hand the whole way....
about a minute ago · Like
 
i really think mill said it best

A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both and deserve neither.

this mentality that we need to give up some of our rights to protect our selves from our selves is idiotic. if we give one inch they will keep taking from us.
 
Here:
http://www.usark.org/statelaws.php



Try to be precise and locate the proposal you seem to be railing against.



rodneynboalich said:
another thing that bothers me is whenever there is money involved the possibility for corruption gos up dramatically. now im not accusing usark of anything but i would like to point out if all the anti reptile legislation went away so would all the money there getting to fight it plus as far as i know there has been no disclosure on their part showing where all the money is going.
Click to expand...

As pointed out ito you in the exchange you yourself posted, there are published financial statements and you were told where they could be located. You owe an apology, this charge by you was abrasive and uncalled for.:NoNo:
 
I had heard about USARK coming up with 'standards' for a while now, since they first got started years ago if I remember correctly. In fact it's right in their mission statement "We endorse caging standards, sound husbandry, escape prevention protocols, and an integrated approach to vital conservation issues."

I am not a fan of rules being imposed but I believe it was looked at as 'the lesser of evils' - the greater evil being a full ban. not saying that makes it right...
 
Last edited:
Lucille said:
Here:
http://www.usark.org/statelaws.php



Try to be precise and locate the proposal you seem to be railing against.





As pointed out ito you in the exchange you yourself posted, there are published financial statements and you were told where they could be located. You owe an apology, this charge by you was abrasive and uncalled for.:NoNo:
Click to expand...

another thing that bothers me is whenever there is money involved the possibility for corruption gos up dramatically. now im not accusing usark of anything but i would like to point out if all the anti reptile legislation went away so would all the money there getting to fight it plus as far as i know there has been no disclosure on their part showing where all the money is going.

i said im not accusing them of anything and i also said as far as i know nothing had been disclosed so how do i owe anyone and apology. i didnt say there was corruption and there was no disclosure.
 
AbsoluteApril said:
I had heard about USARK coming up with 'standards' for a while now, since they first got started years ago if I remember correctly. In fact it's right in their mission statement "We endorse caging standards, sound husbandry, escape prevention protocols, and an integrated approach to vital conservation issues."

I am not a fan of rules being imposed but I believe it was looked at as 'the lesser of evils' - the greater evil being a full ban. not saying that makes it right...
Click to expand...

but it wont stop with a few rules and we all know that as soon as we agree to one there will be more and more. like i said usark should us some of that moeny to investigate the deaths of the people that were supposedly killed by big snake in this country.

one here in PA was a girl killed by a burm with no bite wounds. turns out she was the second daughter to die of asphyxiation in 5 years

and what was the story with the virgina beach case. the guy want out hunting at night and came back and found his girlfriend dead

or that 2 year old in FL.

if we could prove even one of these chases to be a lie it would discredit all propaganda
 
for all you that think these rules are a great idea why dont you go a head and get your reptiles pit tagged and let me know how they do afterwards. let me know about the cancer and tumors and low to no futility rates. let me know how you feel when state kicks in your door and finds one empty water bowl and confiscates your whole collection. and when they confiscate your animals they dont find them homes they put them down.
 
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