Morph Guide

[robin d.]

if a carrothead is nothing more than a baldy albino than why is it that the carrothead is apparent at birth while baldies appear over time? just a thought.

... with more experience you will see baldies are apparent at birth just like "true" hybinos

f.y.i. its actually my second year.

oh sorry

ahhh...touche. the only circle backs ive ever produced look like this and were hypos.

ah you have ALLOT to learn and ALLOT to see

robin...do you need a hug? c'mere, ill give you a hug....

wait more appropriate... you are just a child

 

[Gecko_Den]

hey Steve...

if i breed my super hypo ct thats het for tremper albino to a tremper albino will i get all hypo cts and hybinos?

okay then if i breed two of the hybinos to each other will i produce all hybinos or will i breed some super hybinos?

honestly im reaching with the mack snows being incomplete dominant. i admit its more a guess. i have never worked with any snow variation in leopard geckos so maybe i should wait til i have before i start making claims about its genetic properties. my bad.

but hypos are clearly a codominant morph. ive crossed a super hypo carrot tail to a hypo carrot tail and ive crossed two super hypo carrot tails. this produces a spectrum of melanism presence in both heterozygous and homozygous phenotypes. the least spotted and cleaner looking of them being homozygotes (super hypos carrot tails). the old rule of thumb that a super hypo has so many spots and a hypo has more no longer applies. now you need to cross it to a normal to learn the genetics (hypo ct X non-bling...lol.).

show me a line bred hypo that looks like this...

How about this one:

or this one:

and this one:

All line bred, I can post more if you want. These are seperate from my Albey /Ray Hine lines. The original group these came from were Tangerines with anywhere from 5-25 spots.

 

[thesnakecharmer]

Despite the disagreements . .

I am happy to take the back-seat and read the wealth of information that this thread has produced. This will be my first season breeding my leos and I am happy to learn all that I can about genetics, especially since I anticipate focusing solely on Bells/Hybinos and in strengthening the carrot-tail, tangerine traits in what I (hopefully!) will produce. Even though there doesn't seem to be a general consensus on certain aspects of the subject, I (and I'm sure many others) appreciate the information you are all contributing.

Edit - I just realized I sound like a happy hippie in this post, sorry about that, maybe it was the Red Bull.

 

[diablohogs]

All line bred, I can post more if you want. These are seperate from my Albey /Ray Hine lines. The original group these came from were Tangerines with anywhere from 5-25 spots.

i find it hard to believe those are linebred without ANY ray hines blood. really hard to believe. if they are, they are the most impressive line bred hypos ive ever seen. complete with bald heads and carrottails.

where did these come from? what line are they? did you produce them? how many generations were bred before they started popping out like this?

oh and robin...on second thought ill pass on that hug.

 

[Gecko_Den]

i find it hard to believe those are linebred without ANY ray hines blood. really hard to believe. if they are, they are the most impressive line bred hypos ive ever seen. complete with bald heads and carrottails.

where did these come from? what line are they? did you produce them? how many generations were bred before they started popping out like this?

oh and robin...on second thought ill pass on that hug.

Honestly, what you believe or don't believe means very little to me.

You entered into this thread oozing arrogance, belittling someone elses website and tossing around heresay and opinion as if it was stone hard fact. Hell, a little over a year ago you were posting threads about how you accidently may have bred 20 gram females and asking for answers to the genetic origins of the very morphs that you are now claiming to know so much about. That must have been a hell of a breeding season for you last year, to become an expert in so many morphs in so short a time.

You originally asked to see line breds that looked "as good" as your gecko, I provided them.

The last thing I feel the need to do is be grilled about how/when and why I produced them just because you "find it hard to believe those are linebred without ANY ray hines blood. really hard to believe".

Maybe if you showed a little respect to the other posters here I would be inclined to exchange info with you, but as it stands now, keep breeding and figure out the answers to your question on your own.........

 

[KelliH]

if i breed my super hypo ct thats het for tremper albino to a tremper albino will i get all hypo cts and hybinos?

I can answer that (hope you don't mind Steve ;-), the answer is NO.

okay then if i breed two of the hybinos to each other will i produce all hybinos or will i breed some super hybinos?

So far I have hatched 3 clutches from Hybino X Hybino and all are hybinos, HOWEVER, I have bred SHTCT to each other and have hatched geckos out that have spotting. Can you say, "throwback".

honestly im reaching with the mack snows being incomplete dominant. i admit its more a guess. i have never worked with any snow variation in leopard geckos so maybe i should wait til i have before i start making claims about its genetic properties. my bad.

Yeah, you should probably wait until you work with the animal yourself. However, it has been posted many times here that the Mack Snow is a co-dominant morph (yeah YEAH I KNOW it is actually incomplete dominance, but in the herp world it is called "co-dom")

also, im well aware of the history of the carrot tail.

Oh really? Then why don't you know that the founding hypos that Ray Hine imprted were not yellow, they were "muted". They were ghosts!

they were orignally yellow and not muted like the "ghosts" people claim to have. wouldnt that mean "ghosts" are linebred as well?

See above.

if people out there are trying to push the "NEW ghost morph" and would prefer to ignore Ray Hines Carrot Tails as being a codominant morph than i guess theres nothing i can do about it aside from trying to expose the truth to the public. which is why i felt the need to say something to begin with.

Dude, it's been talked about for years by myself and others, do some searching on this forum and you'll find there have been several discussions on the topic. You're not exposing anything LOL.

quick question: what are they gonna call it when they finally combine this morph (mack snow) with albino and hypo? certainly not ghosts and snows because those names have already been improperly used to describe other linebred animals and of course this morph.

Probably "snow het RW/Tremper/Bell" and "Super Snow RW/Tremper/Bell". Well, that's what I am going to call them at least.

this is a simple recessive trait believed to rest on the same locus as the blizzard morph and both the tremper and bell albinos.

What proof do you have of that???

if a carrothead is nothing more than a baldy albino than why is it that the carrothead is apparent at birth while baldies appear over time? just a thought.

Baldies are apparant at hatching. To me, anyway.

Gecko Den, those top two geckos look like they have Ray Hine blood mixed in there somewhere, I would bet money on it. The bottom one looks like it does not though. Just my opinion, don't beat me up!

Chad, some advice... don't be a Poe...listen and learn from those with more experience than you. Also remember you are not the first person to speculate that Hine line super hypos are co-dom! It's not a new discussion, I'd say it's been going on since about 2002 or so. I think I would say, after years of breeding the Hine hypos, that it is a really strong trait. I still cannot say one way or the other whether it is a dominant or co-dom trait, and I have produced hundreds of them.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Gecko Den, those top two geckos look like they have Ray Hine blood mixed in there somewhere, I would bet money on it. The bottom one looks like it does not though. Just my opinion, don't beat me up!

LOL,

Actually Kelli, the middle picture is the mother of the top and bottom pic......

 

[robin d.]

these arent some of the animals i am looking for this is a different line of line bred hypo tangerine (no ray hine line influence)

this one as well

i will try and get one of april too

 

[KelliH]

Actually Kelli, the middle picture is the mother of the top and bottom pic......

Aha! Well then, perhaps the bottom one pictured has some Hine in her too? LOL no worries it was just an opinion.. but if those top 2 have zero Hine blood in them then they are some serious look alikes!


Check out these two, can you tell which gecko came from a Hine line SHTCTX?

 

[diablohogs]

Honestly, what you believe or don't believe means very little to me.

likewise.

prove your claims sam instead of just posting pictures. if not for me than for the other new breeders on this site. and while your at it try answering some of the questions i asked.

i never said im an expert. i never said i knew it all. thats just how SOME breeders react when you start asking questions that challenge thier marketing plan.

since youve read some of my posts sam, why dont you try reading them all than pass judgment on how little i supposedly know.

that albino juvenille that i thought MIGHT be gravid was not. it was an honest mistake that i made towards the begining of my gecko breeding where i mistakenly thought the organs you can see through the belly might be developing eggs. i keep juvenile geckos in seperate 6 qt. tubs now and its not a mistake i will ever make again.

ive been keeping leopard geckos for 3 years now and this is my second season of breeding. you can learn alot in 3 years. in one year it will have been the equivelent of a full college term (except unlike college i never take a spring or summer break). i suppose based on what your saying, college is a waste of time. people dont learn anything in 4 years? right?

i keep excel spread sheets on all my breeders, my eggs and my hatchlings so i can scientifically keep track of my own breeding experiences. i have indeed learned quite a bit in the last year, since you asked, and i plan to learn much more.

 

[Gecko_Den]

likewise.

prove your claims sam instead of just posting pictures. if not for me than for the other new breeders on this site. and while your at it try answering some of the questions i asked.

i never said im an expert. i never said i knew it all. thats just how SOME breeders react when you start asking questions that challenge thier marketing plan.

since youve read some of my posts sam, why dont you try reading them all than pass judgment on how little i supposedly know.

that albino juvenille that i thought MIGHT be gravid was not. it was an honest mistake that i made towards the begining of my gecko breeding where i mistakenly thought the organs you can see through the belly might be developing eggs. i keep juvenile geckos in seperate 6 qt. tubs now and its not a mistake i will ever make again.

ive been keeping leopard geckos for 3 years now and this is my second season of breeding. you can learn alot in 3 years. in one year it will have been the equivelent of a full college term (except unlike college i never take a spring or summer break). i suppose based on what your saying, college is a waste of time. people dont learn anything in 4 years? right?

i keep excel spread sheets on all my breeders, my eggs and my hatchlings so i can scientifically keep track of my own breeding experiences. i have indeed learned quite a bit in the last year, since you asked, and i plan to learn much more.

LOL, you just don't get it, and likely never will.

I don't need to go back and read all your posts, most I just skip over as you have developed a pattern of being a know it all. Just a few months ago you called out HQ reptiles over their Red stripes, using a very similar line about how you highly doubted theirs didn't have Ray Hine influence, and when they told you their origins, you basically called them liars.

You couldn't even tell the difference between a true stripe and a dorsal stripe.

So tell me, why should I take the time to answer your questions? You already have it in your head that you are right, so what's the point? I give you the answers to your questions and you don't agree so you can call me a liar as well?

Or perhaps you will try to spin what I say and put words in my mouth, much the way you did with that stupid 4 years of college analogy, which was quite a reach.

I'm pretty much done with you Chad, someday perhaps you'll grow out of your attitude, until then best of luck with your future endeavors.

I won't be responding to you again, but feel free to get the last word in, I'm sure your personality requires that you do........

 

[robin d.]

you said 2 years on the other page... go figure... didnt you buy your first gecko from marcia? or one of your first... if i remember correctly

 

[robin d.]

chad i have a question for you.... which of these geckos have ray hine line in them?

 

[diablohogs]

I can answer that (hope you don't mind Steve ;-), the answer is NO.

why not? wait they would be hypo carrot tails and hybinos not SHTCT and hybinos, right?

So far I have hatched 3 clutches from Hybino X Hybino and all are hybinos, HOWEVER, I have bred SHTCT to each other and have hatched geckos out that have spotting. Can you say, "throwback".

no super hybinos?

Yeah, you should probably wait until you work with the animal yourself. However, it has been posted many times here that the Mack Snow is a co-dominant morph (yeah YEAH I KNOW it is actually incomplete dominance, but in the herp world it is called "co-dom")

so than you agree it is probably incomplete dominance.

Oh really? Then why don't you know that the founding hypos that Ray Hine imprted were not yellow, they were "muted". They were ghosts!

i do now. see sam thats called LEARNING.

Dude, it's been talked about for years by myself and others, do some searching on this forum and you'll find there have been several discussions on the topic. You're not exposing anything LOL.

if i do a search i will surely find the thread i started over a year ago explaining that i believed the Ray Hines Carrot Tail gene to be codominant. i believe the thread is called "hypos are codominant!". while i agree this isnt new groundbreaking information...it is info that isnt published anywhere (except this site...buried deep within this forum) so i feel it is necessary to point it out to people who are new to breeding geckos and trying to learn about thier morphs.

this is a simple recessive trait believed to rest on the same locus as the blizzard morph and both the tremper and bell albinos.


What proof do you have of that???

none. which is why i said it is believed. if you want proof that it is believed i can try to scrounge up the post where someone stated this.

Gecko Den, those top two geckos look like they have Ray Hine blood mixed in there somewhere, I would bet money on it. The bottom one looks like it does not though. Just my opinion, don't beat me up!

yeah. but apparently it doesnt take many years of gecko breeding experience to see that.

Chad, some advice... don't be a Poe...listen and learn from those with more experience than you. Also remember you are not the first person to speculate that Hine line super hypos are co-dom! It's not a new discussion, I'd say it's been going on since about 2002 or so. I think I would say, after years of breeding the Hine hypos, that it is a really strong trait. I still cannot say one way or the other whether it is a dominant or co-dom trait, and I have produced hundreds of them.

duelly noted on not being a poe. i listen and learn from many of you guys (ecspecially you, you and your husbands experience with colubrids has earned my respect). i think the problem is when it comes time for a veteran to learn something from me. they refuse and start calling me names (know it all, child, ect..ect..) but dont worry im used to it...been doing this forum stuff since 2003.

as far as which one is a ray hines cross... id say both but thats the obvious answer. so im going with the one on the left. am i right? whatd i win?

robin, i got my first pair (actually 1.2) of leopard geckos (non-blings) in a trade i did with a pet store for some hognose i sold him. his check bounced and i ended up with the leos as payment. i than bought a tang albino female and a pastel female almost a year later. i contacted marcia a few months later asking about a male to pair with them (while i was there i showed her the many snakes i worked with on the website i designed (Diablo Snake Farm). that was summer of 03 i believe. she would probably have better records of that. once i started taking them more serious (leopard geckos) i sold off all my gopher snakes and western hognose to buy a new incubator, a heated rack and some breeding stock. since than i have been on here (faunaclassifieds, kingsnake.com, and every breeder site on the net) almost everyday doing research and asking questions to fill in the gaps of my leopard gecko knowledge.

sam. you honestly know nothing about me or what i do or what i breed. ill make that my last word to you.

 

[diablohogs]

chad i have a question for you.... which of these geckos have ray hine line in them?

the top 2 and the bottom one. the rest appear to be tangs and linebred hypos. however its possible they all have ray hines blood.

whose gecko is that top one? its awesome...really! nice tangerine coloration.

 

[diablohogs]

hey robin... (pretend you dont hate me for 1 minute) i noticed those pictures were taken on drift wood. have you ever noticed leopard geckos biting on this drift wood in thier cages?

i have and it seems like either thier cleaning thier teeth or just like the taste of grapevine. puzzles me.

 

[robin d.]

all of them do except the second from the last and the third one and last one are half brother and sister

 

[robin d.]

i dont keep drift wood in their enclosures... i was just using it that day to take pictures on. (apparantly someone shat on it).... and all of the geckos i have posted are mine... well except one which i sold to kelli earlier this year... it was in my first post with pictures... the rest reside here and are currently breeding

 

[DiabloBoa]

well i learned a couple things too bad i had to wade through all the pissing and sarcasm

 

[KelliH]

why not? wait they would be hypo carrot tails and hybinos not SHTCT and hybinos, right?

No, you would most likely get some spotted non hypos too, if you are breeding a SHCT to a normal looking albino.

no super hybinos?

Hmm all my hybinos are "super hybinos" so I am probably the wrong one to answer that objectively.

so than you agree it is probably incomplete dominance.

Yes, it's been proven to be by John Mack.

none. which is why i said it is believed. if you want proof that it is believed i can try to scrounge up the post where someone stated this.

Don't bother, just because someone says it doesn't mean it is true. I personally do not think it is. Just another Urban Gecko Legend. Hehe

as far as which one is a ray hines cross... id say both but thats the obvious answer. so im going with the one on the left. am i right? whatd i win?

Yes you're correct, and she was produced by a SHTCT baldy to a hypo tang.
The other gecko in the picture is a pure UG line SHT with no Ray Hine.

duelly noted on not being a poe. i listen and learn from many of you guys (ecspecially you, you and your husbands experience with colubrids has earned my respect). i think the problem is when it comes time for a veteran to learn something from me. they refuse and start calling me names (know it all, child, ect..ect..) but dont worry im used to it...been doing this forum stuff since 2003.

I appreciate the compliment on myself and my husband, I cannot take credit for the colubrid experience though, that is all him. He is one of the most knowlegable people I have ever met with regard to herps, and without him I would not be where I am today with the leos. I agree that name calling is not always necessary. Just because a person name calls doesn't mean they are a bad person though.