Bad Guy Adam Wysocki 8 Ball Pythons

[monkeywrench133]

A few days after having the Female Bp in my care I started to notice that she had a wobble to her. I found this weird as she would climb she would twirl as if she was going in circles. Her movement got worse over the time of 2 weeks as if she had no control to which way she would go.
After having her for a month I was doing my daily rounds and found her in the water bowl.

1) Did you at any point take this animal to a vet, or try to get in any professional medical help?

2) If you did take it to the vet, what was the diagnosis?

3) If you did not take it to a vet prior to it's death, did you have a necropsy done to determine cause of death?

4) What were the results of the necropsy?

5) If you failed to do ANY of the above, and the illness/COD is unknown, why should Adam be held responsible.

Also, where the basic proof of ownership, illness, and death? Do you have ANYTHING to show that you actually purchased ANY animal from Adam?

It seems to me that if you're going to post a thread accusing someone of selling an IBD infected animal, you should have proof that you actually did own the animal, and it did die, at the very least.

 

[Focal]

He didn't accuse the seller of IBD. If anyone came close to accusing him it was me and I acknowledged I may be wrong.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

1) Did you at any point take this animal to a vet, or try to get in any professional medical help?

2) If you did take it to the vet, what was the diagnosis?

3) If you did not take it to a vet prior to it's death, did you have a necropsy done to determine cause of death?

4) What were the results of the necropsy?

5) If you failed to do ANY of the above, and the illness/COD is unknown, why should Adam be held responsible.

Also, where the basic proof of ownership, illness, and death? Do you have ANYTHING to show that you actually purchased ANY animal from Adam?

It seems to me that if you're going to post a thread accusing someone of selling an IBD infected animal, you should have proof that you actually did own the animal, and it did die, at the very least.

The answers to your questions are No I wasnt sure what was wrong with the Ball Python I got from Adam Never once have I said or stated that I think it was IBD as No I didnt go to the Vet Im sorry But Where did I say Adam should be held responsible?? I dont him to be responsible I counted it as a loss after not hearing from him for 2 months until present day I mean no contact back at all
I never got anything from him
The reason for the thread wasnt for him selling sick animals but for the lack of communication on Adams part not returning calls nor emails

I could of gone to the vet had a necropsy done but then Id be out more cash either way... I didnt take the Bp to the Vet as I wanted to hear from Adam what he thought the deal was with her Like I stated previously I've made previous purchase's from Adam and they went smoothly

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

In that amount of time, given the concern the buyer states he exhibited, I would expect pictures at the very least.

I would have also expected a necropsy to have been done.

Pictures are on my other Laptop thats not working properly

Yes the Bp did pass away a month after having her

A Necropsy would have ran me a 100+ from an area Vet and being the fact that the Bp Passed away and I never heard nothing from Adam I know ALOT OF YOU WILL OR MAY FIND THIS BAD But I wasnt going to hand out more money to find the cause of death as I never heard back from Adam I Informed him a few days after having her to let him know that I was worried about the way she moved and acted Not hearing back from him I decided to count my losses and instead of losing more money I declined the necropsy as if it did state it was IBD what would make that easier to get ahold of Adam? It wouldn't instead of being out the 75 I paid for her Id be out 175+ and still unable to get ahold of Adam to make him aware of the situation..

Someone stated that Im lacking PROOF Well that may be True but I can say I've talked to several people since then letting them know about the situation

 

[cobraman1]

1) Did you at any point take this animal to a vet, or try to get in any professional medical help?

2) If you did take it to the vet, what was the diagnosis?

3) If you did not take it to a vet prior to it's death, did you have a necropsy done to determine cause of death?

4) What were the results of the necropsy?

5) If you failed to do ANY of the above, and the illness/COD is unknown, why should Adam be held responsible.

Also, where the basic proof of ownership, illness, and death? Do you have ANYTHING to show that you actually purchased ANY animal from Adam?

It seems to me that if you're going to post a thread accusing someone of selling an IBD infected animal, you should have proof that you actually did own the animal, and it did die, at the very least.

It seems to me that if your going to post a reply to a thread accusing someone of them accusing someone of selling an IBD infected animal, you should have read the OP's orginal post.

 

[ozz465]

Man this thread has gone downhill fast , While i agree proof needs to be posted adam does has an actual history of never contacting people he has either pending deals/owes money ect and a few bad guy threads here as well.


As for the argument "too much time has passes" This is also adams fault if this thread is based on facts .

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

Im not out to try and tarnish Adams Name Nor Say he sold me a Bp with IBD as I DONT KNOW IF THE ANIMAL HAD IBD So I would appriciate it if people wouldn't put words in my mouth That I never said
I also Said I made several other purchase's from Adam and they Went SMOOTHLY I still have one of the animals in my care the other I sold to friend

This post was about the lack of communication on Adams behalf and it being impossible to get ahold of him I wrote this off as a loss a while back

Personally besides the communication factor I find Adam to be a Good Guy in the Reptile Industry Im unsure if he's out of the Reptile Industry or not
I understand that Yes he may be a busy guy with all the things he does and has to do But wether I spend $10.00 or $5,000 If I have a question or a concern about a product or an animal I've purchased or recived Id expect a response it's natural

I was hesitant to put a Bad Guy thread on Adam Wysocki as personally I've looked up to him With his success with 8 Ball Pythons and for what he's doing for NatPet

 

[monkeywrench133]

The answers to your questions are No I wasnt sure what was wrong with the Ball Python I got from Adam Never once have I said or stated that I think it was IBD as No I didnt go to the Vet Im sorry But Where did I say Adam should be held responsible?? I dont him to be responsible I counted it as a loss after not hearing from him for 2 months until present day I mean no contact back at all
I never got anything from him
The reason for the thread wasnt for him selling sick animals but for the lack of communication on Adams part not returning calls nor emails

I could of gone to the vet had a necropsy done but then Id be out more cash either way... I didnt take the Bp to the Vet as I wanted to hear from Adam what he thought the deal was with her Like I stated previously I've made previous purchase's from Adam and they went smoothly

So, you took absolutely no steps to diagnose, treat, or ease this animal's suffering. Essentially, you just watched it die.

And then when it did die, it wasn't worth it to you to do a necropsy to find out why it died.

At best, that's neglect. At worst, animal abuse.

But Adam is the bad guy because he didn't return a phone call??

Seems to me that you have your priorities backwards.

 

[monkeywrench133]

It seems to me that if your going to post a reply to a thread accusing someone of them accusing someone of selling an IBD infected animal, you should have read the OP's orginal post.

I did. The accusation was clearly implied. As as you'll notice, it didn't take long for someone to say it outright.

 

[cobraman1]

I did. The accusation was clearly implied. As as you'll notice, it didn't take long for someone to say it outright.

lol. seriously? It was Never implied by the OP. It was suggested by other people that replied to the thread. The OP has made it clear that He isnt even blaming adam for the health of the snake. He just wants people to know that the seller cant seem to answer calls or emails.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

So, you took absolutely no steps to diagnose, treat, or ease this animal's suffering. Essentially, you just watched it die.

And then when it did die, it wasn't worth it to you to do a necropsy to find out why it died.

At best, that's neglect. At worst, animal abuse.

But Adam is the bad guy because he didn't return a phone call??

Seems to me that you have your priorities backwards.

Suffering?? In where did it state that the animal was suffering?? Beside's the movement of the Ball Python being off and a little weird She ate and deficated fine.. I wasnt worried about her health at the time Via She was eating and deficating fine So I didn't really didn't think it was a health issue
I was thinking maybe she was the offspring of a Spider with a bad Wobble to a Normal Via the way she moved as I've seen that in some normals that were offspring of a Spider with a bad wobble...

If for one moment I thought that there was a health issue I would of been at the Vets office But I didnt think it was a health issue

No I guess Im the Bad the Guy in this situation your absolutly right

Becuase I didnt get a necropsy to find out why the Bp Died Honestly Take this how you will But a necropsy isn't going to bring back her..
I've done deals with Adam before this and everything went smoothly I didnt think for a second he would sell a sick animal nor can I say that he did becuase No I didnt get a necropsy Should I have got a necropsy maybe I should have was it wrong for me not to get a necropsy well I guess that would vary from person to person. So you mean to tell me that everytime you have an animal pass away you have a necropsy preformed??

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

lol. seriously? It was Never implied by the OP. It was suggested by other people that replied to the thread. The OP has made it clear that He isnt even blaming adam for the health of the snake. He just wants people to know that the seller cant seem to answer calls or emails.

Thank You Im glad to see someone understands what Im saying

 

[RHaywald]

So, you took absolutely no steps to diagnose, treat, or ease this animal's suffering. Essentially, you just watched it die.

And then when it did die, it wasn't worth it to you to do a necropsy to find out why it died.

At best, that's neglect. At worst, animal abuse.

But Adam is the bad guy because he didn't return a phone call??

Seems to me that you have your priorities backwards.

Please read the original post. You are not being a part of the answer, you are making this a bigger problem than what it really is. You are posting up accusations of neglect and/or animal abuse... what is that going to accomplish? No, the OP never insinuated or said that the BP has IBD... that was other people mentioning that it MIGHT have had it. Please, go re read the first post in this thread. All the OP wants is a phone call/email/facebook back from the dude. So please, if you just feel like getting your jollies on by egging on the OP, that's fine, at least do it without accusations... and if you get your jollies off by doing this, then maybe your priorities are backwards.

I actually agree with the OP, why would you spend the money to get a necropsy if the guy isn't returning phone calls/emails/facebooks? What would the point be? Sure, you would be able to prove that the snake died of a certain cause, and if that certain cause was due to the original owner... but what good would that do if the original owner/seller won't return a message?

 

[hhmoore]

With the exception of the last line of his post, Erin made some very good points. I don't take every animal I get to the vet, nor would I automatically do a necropsy upon death.....however, if I received an animal displaying unusual symptoms, I'm more likely to discuss it with my vet than to rationalize those symptoms as benign and harmless. If said animal were to die in a short amount of time, without displaying additional symptoms which might give reasonable explanation for the death, I would be concerned enough about my other animals to consider a necropsy.
That said, I know nothing of the OPs set up or quarantine practices. Ultimately, it is his decision on how to deal with issues that arise in his animals -whether in terms of veterinary care or post mortem examination....however, if he is selling animals (or offering them as collateral), then he should be as concerned about the potential risk to others as to whatever animals he keeps.
None of that has anything to do with Adam not responding to the OP, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to make the observations.

As far as Adam - I don't know him. It sounds as if he's moved away from reptile keeping, and it certainly isn't uncommon to find that once people do that, they make a clean break. People can make all manner of assumptions of what that means, but the OP is simply posting his information for people to do with what they will.

 

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Some babies simply do not thrive. Period. I never sell hatchlings that are only a few weeks old with only a couple meals in them due to just this. I had a pretty serious wobbler myself this year which I did not sell and will not.

Another theory according to the symptoms is CSS and the snake can either recover or quickly die.

In my opinion, if the animal showed no signs of odd movement or behaviour when you got it, or within a day of having it home, then Adam would probably not have seen anything wrong with it either. Making him not responsible.

Most breeders never guarantee health for Amy period of time once the animal is at it's new home. There is no way to know if it's being kept properly with the right temps etc.. I'm not saying the OP was at fault but I am saying that I highly doubt Adam had any idea the snake was sick. If it was in fact already sick. Any number of things could have caused it to go downhill fast once it was in the OPs possession.

Bad food? Temperature spike? Chemicals? Mite spray?

Who knows, but Adam is not in business anymore and just like if Walmart went out of business, you can't get it resolved now. It's bad that he has a history of not contacting people but that doesn't mean he is a bad guy or sells sick snakes.

You probably won't get a hold of him so continuing to tarnish his name is pointless.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

"That said, I know nothing of the OPs set up or quarantine practices. Ultimately, it is his decision on how to deal with issues that arise in his animals -whether in terms of veterinary care or post mortem examination....however, if he is selling animals (or offering them as collateral), then he should be as concerned about the potential risk to others as to whatever animals he keeps."

Opposite sides of the house new additions dont make it into the room until after 60 days of having them in quarantine

 

[TheVipersHouse]

Well just to be stated as to clear the confusion . Yes Adam was at the Hamburg Show in October , Yes he was selling some animals .
He is in fact out of the business ,told to me directly from him ..
He has been slowly getting out of reptile business for past 1-2 years .
Hes only finishing off the shows that have already been paid for in advanced .
So if you see him at a show then its because the table(s) were already paid for ahead of time .
He does have a few remaining animals left hes trying to sell off and that's why he's still selling animals at shows , just to clear out the remainder of his collection .

 

[Focal]

Does Adam have a S/N on here?

 

[hhmoore]

8BallPythons

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

Well just to be stated as to clear the confusion . Yes Adam was at the Hamburg Show in October , Yes he was selling some animals .
He is in fact out of the business ,told to me directly from him ..
He has been slowly getting out of reptile business for past 1-2 years .
Hes only finishing off the shows that have already been paid for in advanced .
So if you see him at a show then its because the table(s) were already paid for ahead of time .
He does have a few remaining animals left hes trying to sell off and that's why he's still selling animals at shows , just to clear out the remainder of his collection .

If he's still selling animals at shows Then wouldn't it be natural that he return emails & Phone calls on the animals he's selling/sold? Becuase he's getting out not out even when your out of the Industry if you sold a snake 2 days before hand and something happens the buyers going to expect you to answer their calls/emails
So I guess since he's getting out of the Industry If he sells a BumbleBee, Pied, Or a BEL that he has and something happens its ok if he doesn't call nor email you back becuse he's getting out or he's out of the industry??
I Understand that a few of you have Ties to Adam for various reasons and for that I can see why things are trying to be shifted and Blame be placed on me

I really enjoy this comment
"Most breeders never guarantee health for Amy period of time once the animal is at it's new home. There is no way to know if it's being kept properly with the right temps etc.. I'm not saying the OP was at fault but I am saying that I highly doubt Adam had any idea the snake was sick. If it was in fact already sick. Any number of things could have caused it to go downhill fast once it was in the OPs possession.

Bad food? Temperature spike? Chemicals? Mite spray?"

Ummm Last time I checked most breeder's do offer some sort of Health Guarantee wether its 3 days or 7 Most have a health guarantee
Badd Food I dont think so since the others were eating the same Rats from the same bag from the same source... the temps never fall below 87-86 and never go above 94-95 ( Unless Im cycling females for breeding)
Chemicals Not a chemical near the tanks Mite Spray for what??? None of the animals in my collection have mites? So thats out

What I belive is the problem here is people that back Adam for various reasons trying to put resonable doubt in the readers mind that Adam would do this... Well Ask yourself What Is Clarence Blaming Adam For???
LACK OF COMMUNICATION I cant blame him for the health of the snake nor say he is the reason she died as I PREVIOUSLY STATED I didnt have a necropsy done.