is usark over stepping its rights by proposing rules for states without asking us

[jenkznza]

You have to realize that USARK is one piece in the puzzle. When you start discussing HSUS, PETA, and the rest you must think of all the organizations that support the animal industry. You have USARK of course, PIJAC, NAIA, and others that support animals ownership and the pet industry. Many of these groups work together to accomplish a common goal. Put your money where your mouth is and support them. USARK published its books on their website. Have you seen how little they take in. Do you know what it takes to finance advertising campaigns. If you want to attack HSUS let those with the $$ do it. Humanewatch has done a good job of this. Have you seen their billboards in Time Square? USARK can't do it all. Its a fledgling organization. If they had the financial support they'd be able to do more. If we all threw them a few bucks every month you'd be amazed at what would happen. Rodney you really need to check the facts before you spout off.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Rodney- You said there is no board and Andrew takes in money himself and sets policy by himself. That was totally false. Now there's a problem with where and when they meet. Never mind it was open to the public. What's the problem with having a meeting ata large reptile show? We are reptile keepers!
HSUS lies and deceives donors to get their funds. The name itself is set to confuse people thinking it's an umbrella group for local shelters. Same thing with ASPCA and local spca. We do not need to follow their lead on anything. They even violate their own charter by lobbying.
1- I have been on the Humanewatch page for over a year now. They have their campaign and it's good. But guess how many times HW put up information on HSUS anti-exotic policy? None. They get into shelters, horses, dog breeder and agriculture areas. But they don't get into the exotics issues. If anyone here has watched their FB page for the past year they will see it is mainly 3 guys who post that information there in regards to exotics. Specifically reptiles. REXANO is another good place more our liking. That's not to say the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. HW is leading the charge against HSUS. But we don't reference them when using facts against anti-reptile keepers. We have our own scientific sources. You just have to go look for them.
2- Again, good idea. But I still see it as a HW campaign. Not an ARK campaign. It would drain resources from higher priority cases such as lobbying and putting people like Mr Barker in front of a regulatory affairs committee. (What was that about USARK doing nothing again?) We must focus on these efforts and not just a discrediting campaign against HSUS and Born Free. That would just make a civil debate with politicians intoa Jerry Springer episode with AR extremists. See what I mean?
3- What channel would run an ARK commercial. Heads in the right place, but it has been considered. Also considered was getting on radio or tv shows to talk about the issues. Again, money we don't have though. AKC has done okay in their fights and do not run commercials. Street teaming like I used to do for local and regional bands would be more efficient. Flyers not just for ARK but reptile radio shows that show insight to the industry. Raising awareness in any way is good but we have to stay within our means. I have friend looking into making new USARK stickers. The old ones faded fats if on a car.
4- Frank Losey is working on that 501c investigation involving IRS fraud and possible laundering charges seeing as they have to bail out HSI every year and have the HSLF and a school HSU. FBI is also looking in on RICO charges and where they paid the guy to testify against Ringling Bros. The heat is on them and it makes me grin like a possum eatin a yellow jacket!
5- USARK is showing a positive and responsible keeper to the ones that count the most; law makers. They are the ones that matter as they are the ones who decide to pass, veto or amend a bill. They are the ones we have to convince that the majority of us a good people and great keepers with concerns for human and animal safety. You and I can handle the public every day we go out with our "insert snake breeder here" bumper sticker, t-shirt or ball cap. When they ask, tell them the truth about keeping reptiles. Educating the public is our responsibility. Every keeper has done it when they tell family and friends about their passion. And it doesn't cost a dime. Hell, you get me talkin herps and I can't stop half the time!
6- Humanewatch. Not a lot of keepers watch Ellen anyway. I used to like Killswitch Engage and Rob Zombie. Once I found out they support PETA; no more. Same for Lamb Of God. But most of their stuff sounds the same anyway. Getting into boycotting is good. But I have heard fellow keepers say they will still buy tickets to Zombie's movies, shows and download albums because they like them so much. To that I reply "must like him more than your snakes huh?" Because ol Robby ain't gettin crap out of me. And I listened to White Zombie since '93. Hate it...but I like my snakes more than him.
On the contrary I would like to see more people like Kerry King from Slayer advocate for us, as he is a big snake keeper. Slash from GNR used to keep to, if he still doesn't.
The other 6- Humanewatch. I have been blocked form regular HSUS pages. But other support pages won't block unless FB TOS are violated. Trust me; they regretted that. But I never set up fake accounts as they do. I find any tactic of their s distasteful. I will mnot compromise integrity to get a rise out of them. Getting some of the supporters they suckered in comes with simply telling the truth. Others higher in the ranks and actually extreme always use the same cop outs when presented with facts "wild animals belong in the wild". To which I say 'True. That's why I buy only captive bred as we have advocated since the late 90s. And captive breeding decreases the pressure on wild species." Man they hate that. Truth is habitat loss endangers more species than the live trade.

I have kicked around the idea of a group with other similar to what you propose. Just to inform and fight AR lies. Reptile Owners Against Animal Rights, if you will. That's one thing we all are united on, (keepers, farmers, hunters) fighting AR.

1 hw is dong good work to try and inform people about hsus so we need to work with them. we need to work with everyone we can. the more people we have getting the word out the better.

2 we need to spend money on cases. what cases usark or pijac has nver filed a lawsuit. heres a link to usarks 2010 financial statements. they spent $150,000 on lobbyist. i think they could spend on advertising and campaigns to get our message out there and you act liek its a waste of money. advertising and campaings is what has made hsus so successful. usark brought in 300,000 in 2010 and spent $150,000 on lobbying. come on.


3 most any channel would run commercial if your willing to pay. plus there is public access channels. dont forget about the internet.


4 we can still look into how they are going about trying to ban our animals and when we call our representatives we can inform them about what we find and let them know there are criminal investigations going on.

5 most evenone in politics dont care if we keep reptiles and only get involved when they are getting paid to or have been grossly misinformed and thats great we are informing them but we need to attack hsus like they attack us.

6 killswtich, rob zombie and lamb of god probably dont have a clue what peta and hsus are really doing. i saw peta was going to be at warp tour last year and i thought that was a joke and i would of have boycotted warp tour for it but ive been boycotting warp tour for ever, since is a corporate punk show and corporations have no business in punk music

to be honest i think you have spent this whole thread going out o your way just to disagree with me. i think if think were the other way around and i was saying we need regulations and usark was saying no compromise you we still be on usarks side. and you still havnt addressed the origenal question so why dont you take a stab at it

 

[rodneynboalich]

You have to realize that USARK is one piece in the puzzle. When you start discussing HSUS, PETA, and the rest you must think of all the organizations that support the animal industry. You have USARK of course, PIJAC, NAIA, and others that support animals ownership and the pet industry. Many of these groups work together to accomplish a common goal. Put your money where your mouth is and support them. USARK published its books on their website. Have you seen how little they take in. Do you know what it takes to finance advertising campaigns. If you want to attack HSUS let those with the $$ do it. Humanewatch has done a good job of this. Have you seen their billboards in Time Square? USARK can't do it all. Its a fledgling organization. If they had the financial support they'd be able to do more. If we all threw them a few bucks every month you'd be amazed at what would happen. Rodney you really need to check the facts before you spout off.

sorry for having an opinion. i know it will take a lot more than the 2,842 usark spent in 2010 on advertising. im not giving money to an organization that thinks it has the right to write up legislation for other peoples states without even talking to them about it.

 

[BobOblak]

"Are the big five constrictors Dangerous???

Anyone who says "no" is a complete imbucil and is in denial... .. If a pHd says they arent dangerous then shame on him for using his credentials to give the public a false sense of security..... Let him have a 16 foot retic wrap him up in a feeding accident and then make that comment..... They are most definitely dangerous.... I say that after 16 years of working with retics..... I finally saw the light after getting injured really badly by an adult in an incident that can happen to anyone....... It's kind of like the people that have pet tigers that think they have them tamed ..... they are totally in denial..... Its so easy to get complacent.... especially when you are raising a little baby hatchling and watch it grow...... You get this false sense of security, that you have this special knowlege of these animals that gives you a protection if you will..... but the truth is so far from that.... These are still wild animals... with pretty much one thing on their mind... getting their next meal....

Are plenty of other animals dangerous?? sure.....

Ask yourself this one question..... How would you feel if you had a neighbor that had a bengal tiger in his back yard..... and you had a young child...... would you let your kid play in the back yard???? Do you trust your kids life in the hands of a total stranger... DO you trust the total stranger to keep his tiger in the yard?? I dont see a 20 foot retic as anything different.... II guess I have a change of heart now that I have a little girl..... But suddenly Im more worried about "Our rights to have our children not have to worry about getting eaten by a tropical predator" rather than My "rights to own whatever I so please"........."

Yes, I agree, big retics are potentially dangerous to anyone going into its cage, which is always an owner or keeper. The fallacy of the above argument is that when my python attacks and kills me, it will be inside of a secure enclosed building in or near its cage, and even when I am dead, it will not be able to get outside and eat the children next door, or be fast enough to run someone down if it were outside, unlike a big cat kept in an outdoor enclosure.
Its my choice to knowingly expose myself to high risk activities where only myself can be harmed, whether its keeping big reptiles, or skydiving. I dont need nanny-state politicians trying to protect me from myself. Please see the USArk statement on Occupational Hazards VS Public Safety Hazards for clarification if you are still confused.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Im so sick of hearing people scream about losing there rights... THe Constitution doesnt say anything about giving US citizens the right to own any animal they please..... We arent guaranteed this " right" It isnt a right..... It is a privilege that can and should be taken away if abused..... and when our actions begin to infringe upon the "actual rights" of others..... IE "escaped pets wreaking havoc on a community" then it becomes necessary for big brother to step in..... Unfortunately enough people in our little community have screwed up and created the mess were in today.... Yes reptile stories succumb to media sensationalism easily..... and yes they are an easy platform for politicians to use for a cause..... because theyre snakes... and alot of people fear them..... But thats life and the govenment we have...... The cold hard fact of the matter is..... we would NEVER be facing these issues if idiots hadnt screwed it up for all of us in the past......

Are the big five constrictors Dangerous???

Anyone who says "no" is a complete imbucil and is in denial... .. If a pHd says they arent dangerous then shame on him for using his credentials to give the public a false sense of security..... Let him have a 16 foot retic wrap him up in a feeding accident and then make that comment..... They are most definitely dangerous.... I say that after 16 years of working with retics..... I finally saw the light after getting injured really badly by an adult in an incident that can happen to anyone....... It's kind of like the people that have pet tigers that think they have them tamed ..... they are totally in denial..... Its so easy to get complacent.... especially when you are raising a little baby hatchling and watch it grow...... You get this false sense of security, that you have this special knowlege of these animals that gives you a protection if you will..... but the truth is so far from that.... These are still wild animals... with pretty much one thing on their mind... getting their next meal....

Are plenty of other animals dangerous?? sure.....

Ask yourself this one question..... How would you feel if you had a neighbor that had a bengal tiger in his back yard..... and you had a young child...... would you let your kid play in the back yard???? Do you trust your kids life in the hands of a total stranger... DO you trust the total stranger to keep his tiger in the yard?? I dont see a 20 foot retic as anything different.... II guess I have a change of heart now that I have a little girl..... But suddenly Im more worried about "Our rights to have our children not have to worry about getting eaten by a tropical predator" rather than My "rights to own whatever I so please".........

as retarded as this post is i have to agree with the part about these animals being dangerous. i think its a big mistake for usark to say these animals arnt dangerous. from the perspective of a law maker i would quickly point out to usark if these animals are safe why are they suggesting regulations for them. i think we need to admit they are dangerous just like a gun or a car or a dog or anything else that has the possibility of causing harm. but i really dont think the tiger in the neighbors back yard is realistic analogy unless your neighbor happens to be your local zoo.

really your worried about your rights not to have your child eaten by a tropical predator. is that really an issue in your neighborhood.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

What proof that regulations work?
Well, after the NC law was changed to allow hots in BMPs a guy was bitten. Under the old law they would have been taken under any circumstances unless he had a permit. The permits system was set up so it was near impossible to get.
Under the BMPs if a keeper is bitten there will be an investigation, as would be in most cases. Especially when it's on the news. If the investigation finds that the individual was complying with the law on keeping hots no charges will be filed against them and if any animals were confiscated they would be returned (as long as that species didn't violate something like CITES of course).
If like Florida you violate those laws you will be punished and rightfully so.

In 2005 API came to NC and lobbied for an exotics ban. They buddied up to the NC zoos curator Lorraine Smith and a big cat sanctuary; Carnivore Preservation Trust. Along the way they picked a suitable politician and commenced the campaign. From press releases, letters to representatives and releasing cobras; they pulled out all the stops. There was even a tiger cub incident. Nothing was hurt.
The NC exotic animal community set out to stop this. Andrew Wyatt and Carl Persons founded NCARK and with the others fought tooth and nail to run API out of NC. Which they did. But you can't run a politician out of his state until voting time. And we were not enough to pull that off. So here we are with API changing their name to Born Free USA to save face within their own ranks and a politician who still wants something done. Awareness was raised and people wanted him to do something. He doesn't get to keep his job if he doesn't do what they want.
Fortunately he would have rather heard expert advice than agenda driven propaganda so we wrote our own laws. It got all that behind us and loosened up venomous restrictions.
If it worked here, why not try it when other states are facing the same issue? If NCARK had just said no regulations whatsoever then the lawmakers would just say fine, we'll ban them like we were going to before. So after talking with other keepers across the country they decided to replace NC with US and go for it. No one person makes all the decisions.

Andrew also answered all of your questions there on his FB. I saw it. If I knew how to take a screen shot I would. I think he was very tolerant of your behavior. You have also jumped from one stone to the next on statements such as there being no board of directors and when shown otherwise it's a complaint about where it is held. I have broken down the BMP model legislation and debunked the chipping and permit claims.
I never said don't question. But you have been given answers and still want to find something wrong with them. It's like when someone asks for advice on substrate, you tell them what to do and they do what they want to, not what they need to do for the animal. Try that on a monitor forum sometime and see how far that gets ya.

 

[rodneynboalich]

What proof that regulations work?
Well, after the NC law was changed to allow hots in BMPs a guy was bitten. Under the old law they would have been taken under any circumstances unless he had a permit. The permits system was set up so it was near impossible to get.
Under the BMPs if a keeper is bitten there will be an investigation, as would be in most cases. Especially when it's on the news. If the investigation finds that the individual was complying with the law on keeping hots no charges will be filed against them and if any animals were confiscated they would be returned (as long as that species didn't violate something like CITES of course).
If like Florida you violate those laws you will be punished and rightfully so.

In 2005 API came to NC and lobbied for an exotics ban. They buddied up to the NC zoos curator Lorraine Smith and a big cat sanctuary; Carnivore Preservation Trust. Along the way they picked a suitable politician and commenced the campaign. From press releases, letters to representatives and releasing cobras; they pulled out all the stops. There was even a tiger cub incident. Nothing was hurt.
The NC exotic animal community set out to stop this. Andrew Wyatt and Carl Persons founded NCARK and with the others fought tooth and nail to run API out of NC. Which they did. But you can't run a politician out of his state until voting time. And we were not enough to pull that off. So here we are with API changing their name to Born Free USA to save face within their own ranks and a politician who still wants something done. Awareness was raised and people wanted him to do something. He doesn't get to keep his job if he doesn't do what they want.
Fortunately he would have rather heard expert advice than agenda driven propaganda so we wrote our own laws. It got all that behind us and loosened up venomous restrictions.
If it worked here, why not try it when other states are facing the same issue? If NCARK had just said no regulations whatsoever then the lawmakers would just say fine, we'll ban them like we were going to before. So after talking with other keepers across the country they decided to replace NC with US and go for it. No one person makes all the decisions.

Andrew also answered all of your questions there on his FB. I saw it. If I knew how to take a screen shot I would. I think he was very tolerant of your behavior. You have also jumped from one stone to the next on statements such as there being no board of directors and when shown otherwise it's a complaint about where it is held. I have broken down the BMP model legislation and debunked the chipping and permit claims.
I never said don't question. But you have been given answers and still want to find something wrong with them. It's like when someone asks for advice on substrate, you tell them what to do and they do what they want to, not what they need to do for the animal. Try that on a monitor forum sometime and see how far that gets ya.

nc is andrews state. in the email i got from usark is says let me post it again

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

note the

USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

so he wrote up model legislation with stricter rules than he would have for his own state and he didnt even think to run it by any of the hobbyist in PA first.

and for the record i say a lot of things i do to bring stuff out of people i like them to make a claim and then test it against their actions.

and for the record he never answered why he would write legislation for other peoples states and not consult them first. and you have yet to answer that question as well. so what give andrew the right to write legislation of other peoples states

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Rodney
1- Been there done that. I can give you a list of names of good folks on the page. I can give you a list of who's who in their opposition. Yes HSUS has a small campaign against HW/CCF but they try to keep it off their radar so it looks like HSUS is basically ignoring HW.
2- Not wasting money. I said we need to keep our priorities straight and the cost of a mud slinging with HSUS is not in the budget if we have to keep up work in DC. Which is the highest priority. Add in that HW is doing it fine and I just don't see a need to use resources for something someone else is doing great at. Especially when you and I can educate others for free. I see it as our responsibility to.
3-Public access hits a smaller area. Youtube has ARK videos, AW interviews, and some of the snake shows like BRB's touch on USARK and promote it.
4-Who has been keeping tabs on reptile legislation and let's everyone who subscribes to their newsletters (free of charge)? Don't answer that...next........
5-Politicians care about one thing; keeping their job. When majority says ban, they lean that way. Unless convinced that it could hurt them next round or decrease monetary flow into the state then they will proceed. If they can put mild regulations in places to soothe an angry or frightened public and still allow a business to bring money into the state they will. It appeases everyone and that's what they want; job security.
They make the laws, not HSUS. They are the high priority and key to securing the future of herpetoculture. When they tell us we have to give them something, that's our chance to write our own laws and not someone else.
6- I agree.
Absolutely not. I have tried to inform you, correct any false statements and attempted to convey what was done and why. The questions you posed to Andrew on his FB he answered. If USARK said no regulation whatsoever every time a politician gave them a chance to speak they would not have my support or have gotten as far as they have. I'm going with the organization that is being strategic, practical, shown a responsible keeper willing to address concerns in a civil manner and looks out for all keepers and throws no one under the bus (example-handing over hot keepers to save big snakes) within the community. Solid tactics that are not distracted by AR ploys to drain our coffers and resources. If USARK was none of that I wouldn't be here. We would all probably be waiting for federal bans to take effect.
It is you who seem to be here for the sake of arguing. Every answer gets a twisted response and another false claim. I wouldn't find it necessary to continue except someone not familiar with USARK may read this and you will have given them the impression the ARK is one guy scamming everyone and cutting our own throats with chipping that kills animals and permits, inspections meeting with HSUS and whatever. That couldn't be further for the truth.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Rodney
1- Been there done that. I can give you a list of names of good folks on the page. I can give you a list of who's who in their opposition. Yes HSUS has a small campaign against HW/CCF but they try to keep it off their radar so it looks like HSUS is basically ignoring HW.
2- Not wasting money. I said we need to keep our priorities straight and the cost of a mud slinging with HSUS is not in the budget if we have to keep up work in DC. Which is the highest priority. Add in that HW is doing it fine and I just don't see a need to use resources for something someone else is doing great at. Especially when you and I can educate others for free. I see it as our responsibility to.
3-Public access hits a smaller area. Youtube has ARK videos, AW interviews, and some of the snake shows like BRB's touch on USARK and promote it.
4-Who has been keeping tabs on reptile legislation and let's everyone who subscribes to their newsletters (free of charge)? Don't answer that...next........
5-Politicians care about one thing; keeping their job. When majority says ban, they lean that way. Unless convinced that it could hurt them next round or decrease monetary flow into the state then they will proceed. If they can put mild regulations in places to soothe an angry or frightened public and still allow a business to bring money into the state they will. It appeases everyone and that's what they want; job security.
They make the laws, not HSUS. They are the high priority and key to securing the future of herpetoculture. When they tell us we have to give them something, that's our chance to write our own laws and not someone else.
6- I agree.
Absolutely not. I have tried to inform you, correct any false statements and attempted to convey what was done and why. The questions you posed to Andrew on his FB he answered. If USARK said no regulation whatsoever every time a politician gave them a chance to speak they would not have my support or have gotten as far as they have. I'm going with the organization that is being strategic, practical, shown a responsible keeper willing to address concerns in a civil manner and looks out for all keepers and throws no one under the bus (example-handing over hot keepers to save big snakes) within the community. Solid tactics that are not distracted by AR ploys to drain our coffers and resources. If USARK was none of that I wouldn't be here. We would all probably be waiting for federal bans to take effect.
It is you who seem to be here for the sake of arguing. Every answer gets a twisted response and another false claim. I wouldn't find it necessary to continue except someone not familiar with USARK may read this and you will have given them the impression the ARK is one guy scamming everyone and cutting our own throats with chipping that kills animals and permits, inspections meeting with HSUS and whatever. That couldn't be further for the truth.

There. that's the right spot

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Dammit


Okay after that glitch
How many times on this thread have I told you there is no chipping in NC? Wasn't that my 1st or 2nd post? Florida has chipping. Chipping is needed there. Not here. When needed yes, chipping is okay. It isn't the great health threat and huge expense you originally claimed.
See, I like to find is what is consistent in someone's statements and how they react when that is broken down. I have basically repeated myself in different words and even elaborated on actual incidents and experiences to keep it from just copying and pasting segments from all my quotes when you jumble up your statements again to make them new. So ONE Last time-

USARK has board meetings and any concerns can be brought up there or you may contact them on their website. Andrew said there on his page he did not push for any laws in PA. No one man is making all the decisions for reptile keepers federal or state level. Just like there is no chipping here, no 3rd party has ever been killed by a large constrictor hence the "not dangerous yet do pose a risk to keepers" statements the ARK has made.
And if I have to answer the exact question, here: Is USARK overstepping it's rights by proposing laws for states without yadda yadda?"
NO. Because what I said above about Andrew stating he's not pushing laws in PA, and that silly thought that one guy is making all of this up by himself when there is no doubt they have a Board of Directors that meet at one of the biggest shows every year. Add to the fact Andrew hangs around everyone during and after shows and auctions so you know people kick around ideas and ask questions.

 

[dumje]

you know...im joining USARK after reading this thread...

 

[HerpVenue]

he set up rules to offer up to ours states without even talking to us or running it by us

Really?
Then you need to do some research on the association that you joined. Because USARK stemmed our of a national need for representation. So he basically "expanded" NCARK. (for lack of a better term).

2 we need to spend money on cases. what cases usark or pijac has nver filed a lawsuit.

REad the statement you are answering. He did not mean cases as in lawsuit cases. And before you say that the NRA has sued people and USARK should to. Let me tell you. NRA sues on the bases of our 2nd ammendment rights being violated. What can USARK use as a bases of a lawsuit besides the wildlife people undermining the law making process?

note the

USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

so he wrote up model legislation with stricter rules than he would have for his own state and he didnt even think to run it by any of the hobbyist in PA first.

Where does it say that the rules being offered is stricter for all states except his state?

You need to calm down and think. You were so hyper and practically yelling I decided to skip just about the whole thread. You came out posting and practically attacking everyobody.It was obvious that when people tried to reason with you, you practicall yelled at them and or ignored what they had to say. We can have a discussion into our rights. But if you are gonna act all crazy and come unglued because of "model legislation" then perhaps it is crazies like you that we don't want owning anything dangerous. Remember the crazy in ohio? yeah you remind of him at this point

Now calm your butt and lets have a discussion.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

5. Prepare to file a Federal Lawsuit: In anticipation that USFWS ignores the fact that there are gross inequities, misrepresentations and inaccuracies in the Proposed Rule and agency reports used to support the Proposed Rule. There are also alternatives that have not been fully explored.

http://www.usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=259

True there has been no lawsuit....yet. Other than this what would a law suit do? It would redirect resources and time from higher priority issues. Who are we supposed to be filing lawsuits against? Should USF&W ignore the discrepancies and attempts by USARK under the Freedom of Information and Information Quality Acts then we may see days in court. But besides this, who are we supposed to be filing suit against?

Because USARK stemmed our of a national need for representation. So he basically "expanded" NCARK. (for lack of a better term).

And this was run by others in the herp community. NCARK didn't just say "let's go national" and go that route over night. Input was sought by many and it was announced to the public at a major show out of NC. NCARK members did get a bug in their ears about it. But it was not official until after the meeting.

 

[HerpVenue]

Yeah that is my point. He says he did not know and was not consulted. I guess he did not know the organization he signed up for. Because everything was in the website. ie position statements history etc etc etc.

There was a big meeting. Everything was discussed. He pitched it to the big gurus. They all knew the model that USARK will be using.

Then comes along some fool who did not know what he joined or what he is talking about. Complaining about something he did not even do research on. He just wants to sue everyone.

 

[Gary O]

I am tired after the day I had today lol. But I will come back and post tomorrow. Thanks to everyone that has contacted me. I think if we all do our part it will help USARK be that more powerful. That is what it is all about. Helping do your part to save OUR hobby.

 

[rodneynboalich]

I am tired after the day I had today lol. But I will come back and post tomorrow. Thanks to everyone that has contacted me. I think if we all do our part it will help USARK be that more powerful. That is what it is all about. Helping do your part to save OUR hobby.

i talked to terry wilkins today. you mite want to call him and let him know you are looking to get involved with the fight. ill be calling my local spca this weekend and talking to them about getting in touch with all the spca's in PA. im also going to be contacting my local printing company and looking into cost for pamphlets with information about hsus and donations and so on. i think your right about each state needing to have its own representation. we need to move on that. and first and for most we need to start costing hsus money. we need to run smear campaigns. we need to protest people and companies that promote them.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Yeah that is my point. He says he did not know and was not consulted. I guess he did not know the organization he signed up for. Because everything was in the website. ie position statements history etc etc etc.

There was a big meeting. Everything was discussed. He pitched it to the big gurus. They all knew the model that USARK will be using.

Then comes along some fool who did not know what he joined or what he is talking about. Complaining about something he did not even do research on. He just wants to sue everyone.

who were the guru's and when was this and why dose only the gurus get to hear and have a say

 

[rodneynboalich]

Really?
Then you need to do some research on the association that you joined. Because USARK stemmed our of a national need for representation. So he basically "expanded" NCARK. (for lack of a better term).

REad the statement you are answering. He did not mean cases as in lawsuit cases. And before you say that the NRA has sued people and USARK should to. Let me tell you. NRA sues on the bases of our 2nd ammendment rights being violated. What can USARK use as a bases of a lawsuit besides the wildlife people undermining the law making process?

Where does it say that the rules being offered is stricter for all states except his state?

You need to calm down and think. You were so hyper and practically yelling I decided to skip just about the whole thread. You came out posting and practically attacking everyobody.It was obvious that when people tried to reason with you, you practicall yelled at them and or ignored what they had to say. We can have a discussion into our rights. But if you are gonna act all crazy and come unglued because of "model legislation" then perhaps it is crazies like you that we don't want owning anything dangerous. Remember the crazy in ohio? yeah you remind of him at this point

Now calm your butt and lets have a discussion.

i like how you said you decided to skip just about the whole thread and then you go on to give your opinion of me and thread. brilliant

 

[rodneynboalich]

by the way andrew will be on urban jungle radio tonight and terry was going to be on too but andrew said he wouldnt come on if they had terry as well.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

I give you credit for doing something. I respect that initiative. You don't like the majority plan and you are free to do so. I don't fault you for that. However take this as constructive criticism to your plan of action. The only disagreement is running a smear campaign against H$U$. Why try to smear their name when the basic truth will suffice? With groups like HW doing a fine job you can concentrate those funds and resources to other areas.