Allowing scammers and thieves to stay on Fauna!

[rodneynboalich]

so i can us pissing as much as i want and if its not why did you us pi$$ing

he use

 

[jmwboas]

Rodney, I like your idea, I just don't think it is feasible on a site that you do not need to be a contributing member to use. If it was a private member only site, that may work and be a big draw for people to pay to join the site. I know that if I was to run a site like that, I would want to be compensated for my efforts, not just giving them away free(seeing as HOW much work that would take). Anyone can use this site, which is nice and all the tools are there for people to learn who to deal with and who not to. IMO

 

[JordanAng420]

bare in mind its a private site and you have your own set of rules like you keep reminding me every time i swear.

every time ive swore in a thread ive got an infarction within an hour of doing so. so you have time to catch that but not time to deal with classified post that are clearly misrepresenting animals and so on.

So why do you keep doing it if it's obviously not allowed??? Isn't that the same concept of what you're preaching about to begin with? Hello kettle, this is pot. You're black.

As far as the rest of your post goes, it's like you're talking with your fingers in your ears. All you can hear is yourself. Wake up!

 

[jmwboas]

Hey Rodney, If you are so passionate about doing things that way, why don't YOU step up to the plate and offer to do that work for this site? To the best of my knowledge, the mods here are volunteers as well as the individuals on the boi that do an amazing job at pinning the tail on the donkey. I think for being able to use this site for FREE, people got it good here.

 

[rodneynboalich]

In all seriousness, I don't understand what you are getting at. The scammers can't bring down the market price if they are scamming. If someone wants to pay rock bottom from a no-name, aren't they bringing the market down?

i think thats a good question. whats the best route to go with. to over pay or to under pay. and what is the fair price. if you are to look in retics for example (and this is not an attack or a criticism its just stating a fact) prehistoric pets on average list their retics and 25% to 50% higher than the rest. thats the biggest name in retics. should a person be willing to pay that extra 25% to 50% verses a lower cost from a so called no name. a higher price dosnt necessarily mean higher quality and when big names are over pricing it makes the person selling the same animals at the average price look like they are bringing down markets. i dont think big name verses no name prices are a fair comparison as would be average prices verses scammers prices. a good example of this would be. i sell purples for around $500. jay sells his for around $1000. to look at that it would seem im crashing markets until you look into it and see just about everyone else sells purples for $400 to $600 then you realize that im right in the middle of market value. now if you take a recent add on fauna. a guy was selling a 8ft ultra ivory for i think $800. thats a $7000 snake. usually the scammers prices are much more out of line with market prices compared to the so called no namers prices

 

[WebSlave]

i think the main opposition to my opinion is the view in which its being looked at. the opposition comes from only seeing it from the side of the owners of the site and what it would mean for them to impose rules on business practices on their site. if you step back and look at it from the consumers point of view i think you would see something very different. so for everyone thats opposed to rules for banning in handing out infractions for people ripping people off on here or caught trying to do so. ask yourself this question if you were going to a store that was basically served as a medium for smaller stores or indiviuals to sell heir goods and when you got there there were two stores. and on the sign out front one said. we are a privately owned store that allows other to use our facility to market and sell their goods and we are in no why responsible for the actions carried out within. but the other sign said the same thing but added. but we will do are best to ensure that you receive the best possible goods and services by eliminate as much of the fraudulent behavior as we can. tell me which store are you going to walk into?

And I'll state my position more clearly in relation to classified ads here. NO, we are NOT going to try to verify that every seller and every buyer is legitimate on this site. We are NOT going to try to verify that they actually have the merchandise they advertise. We are NOT going to try to verify that they have the money to pay for purchases sent on promises of payment. We are NOT going to try to verify that the money order they sent is not counterfeit. We are NOT going to try to determine if their statements describing the merchandise they offer are accurate and truthful. We are NOT going to try to determine if the statements they made after receipt of any merchandise is truthful.

I'll be quite honest about it, anyone who even momentarily entertains the thought that we SHOULD do all the above really needs a reality adjustment done in a major way. You obviously don't have a clue about what would be involved to do such investigations, and furthermore it appears that your stance is such that you would rather have someone else do the work that YOU should do yourself prior to engaging in a transaction with someone else.

We are doing our best to provide people with the tools we hope are needed for them to make informed and rational decisions about who they do business with. But THEY have to use those tools. If they refuse to do the work necessary in order to accomplish that task, then I am sorry about the state of affairs they may find themselves in as a result, but that is their own darn fault, not ours.

So, in a nutshell, if you don't like the way things are done here, then don't use the facilities here. Go elsewhere more to your liking. No one is forcing anyone to come here, and those that choose to do so are expected to understand that THEY are responsible for their own actions. If they send money or merchandise to someone, they are completely responsible for that decision and any aftermath that may result.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TRY TO HOLD YOUR HAND AND FORCE YOU TO ONLY MAKE GOOD DECISIONS (based on our definitions) THAT WE CHOOSE FOR YOU. WE ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE THE CLAIM THAT EVERYONE DOING BUSINESS HERE IS PRE-APPROVED AND SAFE FOR YOU BY VIRTUE OF THEIR BEING HERE DOING BUSINESS.

If that is not SAFE enough for you, and/or you are unable to make rational, logical, well thought out decisions, well, THIS site is just not for you, in that case.

Now, if the above is STILL not clear enough for you, please read it over and over again until you finally understand what I am telling you.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Just in case you missed this when I posted it earlier in this thread...

Sorry, but no, and I've stated this MANY times over the years, we are not going to act as judges in incidents that we do not have any personal knowledge of.

what about when yu have knowledge of the issue before hand when no sell has been made. what is your justification for not interceding when you someone is lying in an add.

as for the pissing issue is there another words that according to social norms are typically considered profanity but are superseded by your own subjectivity. you know that same subjectivity you refused to employe since its such an issue in regrades to words like scammers that would cause you to back away do to the relativity of it.

 

[rodneynboalich]

That's two different beasts Rodney. This is in regards to banning scammers. Even if tomorrow, the world changes and every scammer is banned from fauna, I don't think the prices would change ... if anything, I think they would probably drop.

There is this little medium where people try to balance out price and who they trust enough to purchase from. Besides those truly concerned about quality, most people would pick the cheapest person if everyone was equally trustworthy, thus dropping the prices quicker. I will honestly pay a trusted good guy MORE money than someone that could be a scammer. Without scammers in the picture, I'd go with the cheaper good guy with the same quality animal most of the time and the guy that wanted more would probably drop.

im sorry but that is idiotic to think that scamming actually helps stabilize prices. so your telling em because of scammers you out of the good guys you have to choose from you go with the one with the higher prices because you must admit that there is more than only one good guy selling the same kinda animals. and if that is the logic you subscribe to good for the people getting your money. stupidity should be expensive. let me ask this too if a person is offering the same quality animals at higher prices isnt that kind of a scam in its self. are you not being scammed for paying more for the same product when the quality is the same.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Hey Rodney, If you are so passionate about doing things that way, why don't YOU step up to the plate and offer to do that work for this site? To the best of my knowledge, the mods here are volunteers as well as the individuals on the boi that do an amazing job at pinning the tail on the donkey. I think for being able to use this site for FREE, people got it good here.

i would be more than glad to hand out some infraction to some people on here

 

[jmwboas]

Rodney I noticed you are a Registered User, seeing as you are not a contributing member don't you think that you are getting your monies worth here.

Also, I would rather other people selling the same animals I am, keep their prices up. The only way the market drops is because sellers are willing to do what it takes to sell. If we as a group dont drop prices, what other choice do buyers have except to buy at our prices and keep the market from crashing so quickly. It will still crash, just would take a lot longer for it to get there.

 

[rodneynboalich]

And I'll state my position more clearly in relation to classified ads here. NO, we are NOT going to try to verify that every seller and every buyer is legitimate on this site. We are NOT going to try to verify that they actually have the merchandise they advertise. We are NOT going to try to verify that they have the money to pay for purchases sent on promises of payment. We are NOT going to try to verify that the money order they sent is not counterfeit. We are NOT going to try to determine if their statements describing the merchandise they offer are accurate and truthful. We are NOT going to try to determine if the statements they made after receipt of any merchandise is truthful.

I'll be quite honest about it, anyone who even momentarily entertains the thought that we SHOULD do all the above really needs a reality adjustment done in a major way. You obviously don't have a clue about what would be involved to do such investigations, and furthermore it appears that your stance is such that you would rather have someone else do the work that YOU should do yourself prior to engaging in a transaction with someone else.

We are doing our best to provide people with the tools we hope are needed for them to make informed and rational decisions about who they do business with. But THEY have to use those tools. If they refuse to do the work necessary in order to accomplish that task, then I am sorry about the state of affairs they may find themselves in as a result, but that is their own darn fault, not ours.

So, in a nutshell, if you don't like the way things are done here, then don't use the facilities here. Go elsewhere more to your liking. No one is forcing anyone to come here, and those that choose to do so are expected to understand that THEY are responsible for their own actions. If they send money or merchandise to someone, they are completely responsible for that decision and any aftermath that may result.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TRY TO HOLD YOUR HAND AND FORCE YOU TO ONLY MAKE GOOD DECISIONS (based on our definitions) THAT WE CHOOSE FOR YOU. WE ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE THE CLAIM THAT EVERYONE DOING BUSINESS HERE IS PRE-APPROVED AND SAFE FOR YOU BY VIRTUE OF THEIR BEING HERE DOING BUSINESS.

If that is not SAFE enough for you, and/or you are unable to make rational, logical, well thought out decisions, well, THIS site is just not for you, in that case.

Now, if the above is STILL not clear enough for you, please read it over and over again until you finally understand what I am telling you.

so which store are you going to walk into

 

[jmwboas]

i would be more than glad to hand out some infraction to some people on here

The only problem with you being able to hand out infractions is, You would have to ban yourself because of your posts before you could even get to dealing with the scammers. You'd be banned and the scammers would still get away.

 

[WebSlave]

Sorry, but no, and I've stated this MANY times over the years, we are not going to act as judges in incidents that we do not have any personal knowledge of.

what about when yu have knowledge of the issue before hand when no sell has been made. what is your justification for not interceding when you someone is lying in an add.

I'm sorry, but I didn't get that crystal ball and lie detector that you apparently sent me. You may want to check the tracking number..........

as for the pissing issue is there another words that according to social norms are typically considered profanity but are superseded by your own subjectivity. you know that same subjectivity you refused to employe since its such an issue in regrades to words like scammers that would cause you to back away do to the relativity of it.

Yes, my own subjectively concerning profanity applies here. How could it be any other way? I own this site and therefore make the rules for it. But I believe my choices of which words satisfy the common definition of profanity are pretty much in line with normal acceptance in a publicly viewable medium. Not everyone will agree, of course, but that's just the way it is.

As for being able to determine who is lying in a BOI thread, sorry, but I don't read all of the threads there, and those that I do, I am still not going to make a public judgment call accusing someone of lying unless I have first person involvement in the event. Just like everyone else, I am limited to reading what others are writing and calling "facts". I don't "know" anything about the situation, and can only form my own "opinion" based on what I am reading. I am not willing to place myself in legal jeopardy by calling someone a "liar", and acting on that judgment by banning them from here, and possibly wind up on the wrong side of a libel suit if it turns out I was wrong, basing my call on incomplete and/or inaccurate statements made by someone else. People making decisions to buy or not to buy based on a BOI thread are an entirely different kettle of fish compared to me making a judgment such as you desire me to do concerning their membership on this site.

Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? Is there anyone else in your household that you can use to explain this to you in terms you understand?

 

[WebSlave]

so which store are you going to walk into

It appears to me your path is clear. So why don't you take it?

 

[WebSlave]

i would be more than glad to hand out some infraction to some people on here

I can guarantee that THAT is not going to happen here....

 

[WebSlave]

Since this thread is obviously about policy, I am moving it to the Feedback Forum...

 

[rodneynboalich]

And I'll state my position more clearly in relation to classified ads here. NO, we are NOT going to try to verify that every seller and every buyer is legitimate on this site. We are NOT going to try to verify that they actually have the merchandise they advertise. We are NOT going to try to verify that they have the money to pay for purchases sent on promises of payment. We are NOT going to try to verify that the money order they sent is not counterfeit. We are NOT going to try to determine if their statements describing the merchandise they offer are accurate and truthful. We are NOT going to try to determine if the statements they made after receipt of any merchandise is truthful.

I'll be quite honest about it, anyone who even momentarily entertains the thought that we SHOULD do all the above really needs a reality adjustment done in a major way. You obviously don't have a clue about what would be involved to do such investigations, and furthermore it appears that your stance is such that you would rather have someone else do the work that YOU should do yourself prior to engaging in a transaction with someone else.

We are doing our best to provide people with the tools we hope are needed for them to make informed and rational decisions about who they do business with. But THEY have to use those tools. If they refuse to do the work necessary in order to accomplish that task, then I am sorry about the state of affairs they may find themselves in as a result, but that is their own darn fault, not ours.

So, in a nutshell, if you don't like the way things are done here, then don't use the facilities here. Go elsewhere more to your liking. No one is forcing anyone to come here, and those that choose to do so are expected to understand that THEY are responsible for their own actions. If they send money or merchandise to someone, they are completely responsible for that decision and any aftermath that may result.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TRY TO HOLD YOUR HAND AND FORCE YOU TO ONLY MAKE GOOD DECISIONS (based on our definitions) THAT WE CHOOSE FOR YOU. WE ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE THE CLAIM THAT EVERYONE DOING BUSINESS HERE IS PRE-APPROVED AND SAFE FOR YOU BY VIRTUE OF THEIR BEING HERE DOING BUSINESS.

If that is not SAFE enough for you, and/or you are unable to make rational, logical, well thought out decisions, well, THIS site is just not for you, in that case.

Now, if the above is STILL not clear enough for you, please read it over and over again until you finally understand what I am telling you.

unfortunately this is as a whole the way it is for most classifieds and shows. the people that own them are more than happy to have them are more than happy to take credit for them are more than happy to profit from them. but not take responsibility for them when they have a negative affect.

'I'll be quite honest about it, anyone who even momentarily entertains the thought that we SHOULD do all the above really needs a reality adjustment done in a major way. You obviously don't have a clue about what would be involved to do such investigations, and furthermore it appears that your stance is such that you would rather have someone else do the work that YOU should do yourself prior to engaging in a transaction with someone else'

i didnt say you should do all of the above you said that. im just saying couldnt you at least just say something to the person involved when its brought to your attention that there is a suspicious add posted and maybe ask the person posting it to explain themselves. you post was an exaggeration of what im suggesting and then you finished it up with the good old love it or leave it speech

 

[Focal]

im just saying couldnt you at least just say something to the person involved when its brought to your attention that there is a suspicious add posted and maybe ask the person posting it to explain themselves.

That's what the BOI is for and if the complainant has enough evidence to brand the ad "suspicious," then they should be the one making other people aware in the BOI. Again, you are asking for admin to play judges.

 

[Lucille]

im just saying couldnt you at least just say something to the person involved when its brought to your attention

At this point after all the explanations, I feel your misunderstanding is intentional, and I wonder how benign your intentions really are toward this site.

 

[rodneynboalich]

I'm sorry, but I didn't get that crystal ball and lie detector that you apparently sent me. You may want to check the tracking number..........



Yes, my own subjectively concerning profanity applies here. How could it be any other way? I own this site and therefore make the rules for it. But I believe my choices of which words satisfy the common definition of profanity are pretty much in line with normal acceptance in a publicly viewable medium. Not everyone will agree, of course, but that's just the way it is.

As for being able to determine who is lying in a BOI thread, sorry, but I don't read all of the threads there, and those that I do, I am still not going to make a public judgment call accusing someone of lying unless I have first person involvement in the event. Just like everyone else, I am limited to reading what others are writing and calling "facts". I don't "know" anything about the situation, and can only form my own "opinion" based on what I am reading. I am not willing to place myself in legal jeopardy by calling someone a "liar", and acting on that judgment by banning them from here, and possibly wind up on the wrong side of a libel suit if it turns out I was wrong, basing my call on incomplete and/or inaccurate statements made by someone else. People making decisions to buy or not to buy based on a BOI thread are an entirely different kettle of fish compared to me making a judgment such as you desire me to do concerning their membership on this site.

Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? Is there anyone else in your household that you can use to explain this to you in terms you understand?

"As for being able to determine who is lying in a BOI thread, sorry, but I don't read all of the threads there, and those that I do, I am still not going to make a public judgment call accusing someone of lying unless I have first person involvement in the event. Just like everyone else, I am limited to reading what others are writing and calling "facts". I don't "know" anything about the situation, and can only form my own "opinion" based on what I am reading."

ok what if you are the first person and you are the one that got ripped off. how do you handle it. do you simply post a boi and let people know and continue to let them post on your site or do you take further action and try to spare everyone else from repeating your mishap