Info Mike Udall, graystandman, Bad Buyer

[ForkedTung]

I was hoping to avoid this but Mike has forced the issue by stating he would start a thread on me ( to be honest I had thought of starting one on him, but was willing to let the issue rest where it was, he got his snake and I got paid, should've been the end of the story).

In a nutshell, I posted a hatchling cornsnake on cornsnakes.com, Mike offered to buy it, I looked into shipping FedEx, next day( I am FedEx certified to ship and have shipped many snakes and never had this problem) he wanted me to find a location convenient to him so I sent him a link with staffed locations ( he later states he's had snakes shipped there before so I'm not sure why he had me go look up locations for him?) and he decided to go with the standard rate for next day delivery.

After agreeing to this he PayPals me the money and then I ship on Monday and send him the FedEx shipping link so he can track it.

I didn't get any response so I repeatedly tried to contact him via two email addy's I have ( one for business, the other for contacts) and through PM's and messages at cornsnakes.com. I wanted to make sure he knew, for sure, the snake was coming ( for this Mike later calls me paranoid), finally after the Monday emails I get a message Tuesday ( today) he will be picking it up after work.

At approximately 7:20 PM, my time (4:20 in AZ, where the snake is), I get a call from FedEx stating that the package has not been picked up and that they know it's a snake because it's been sitting there for seven hours now and I had written the scientific name and common on the box, very small...per the LACY ACT
( something Mike later calls "crap" and admits he doesn't do).

The woman is very nice and helpful, and she says that because it's an animal they can only hold it there until 5:30 PM or they will ship it to Tempe for the night because that facility where it is at can't keep it, (at that point she is unclear what will happen with it if he doesn't pick it up tonight and she said she's looking into it), but he can still pick it up in Tempe before 7:30, this info was from two different conversations when she called me, one before and then after they shipped it to Tempe.

I immediately again send emails and messages, the same as before, to Mike basically reiterating what I've been told, I also send him the phone number of the very nice FedEx lady ( she really was helpful and just trying to get this resolved, in the later conversation she said if he didn't get it in time, she'd pretend they missed it and she'd try to keep the snake there in Tempe until the next day by 5PM) which it appears he never bothered to call her.

At this point I'm frustrated with the lack of being able to communicate with him, I've done everything I can to see he get's this snake, delivered to exactly where he wanted, when he wanted it and to where he's had snakes shipped before. I'm worried about the snake and just hoping he get's it in time, as it will probably be another day of travel with temperatures dropping (even with the 40hr. heat pack) if they had to send it back, a possibility if he doesn't get it in time.

Then I get thisI tried to make this easy to read;we had two sets of emails going at one point, but I can post them all as they are if that would help((blue is me, writing in now)

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:51:00 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You've got money!
To: [email protected]

Kyle,

Next time PLEASE do NOT tell them it is a snake!! Everything would have been just fine had you not let them know that. (Here I think Mike assumes I just called FedEx out of the blue and screamed "snake!" I know better and he should know better!) The Fed-ex office where you shipped it was open until 9pm and I got there at 5:50pm. I have had 2 other snakes shipped there in the past but because you told them it was a snake, they shipped it off to another Fed ex place 45 minutes away where they keep some types of animals. "except for snakes". Fed ex employees know nothing about reptiles ( Here I would agree with Mike, but I do know about the LACY ACT and I'm FedEx certified)and according to the manual which they showed me, snakes cannot be delivered anywere in AZ unless you have a certain reptiles shipping approval which they said you do not have (If this is true that is on me, but not relevant to how this played out). Anyway, I finally found the package at around 7pm and he is doing well in it's new home with water.

thx,

Mike Udall

to which I replied:

From: kyle howard <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: You've got money!
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 8:22 PM

Well Mike, All I can say is that this has been a very disappointing, frustrating and time consuming transaction.
After I made all shipping arrangements and found a place convenient to you, communication on your side ended, I had to keep following up.
I DID NOT tell them it was a snake!!! They knew when they called because they looked at the label because the darn thing had been sitting there since 9:30 this morning!, If you were unable to pick it up until after work other arrangements should have been made, it wasn't a pair of socks I was shipping you.
The reason the very nice lady I kept speaking to on the phone moved it, was because 5:30 was the latest they could hold it until it had to be shipped back.
The reason I wrote, in the tiniest, smallest, lettering in black possible to match the writing on the box ( look at the label) what was contained is because the LACEY ACT, makes it required that I write the common and scientific name of the animal contained, I was following the law.
I've shipped over a hundred snakes and never had this problem, never.
She also told me that my FedEx, that know me because I ship because I'm certified to ship and do so often, can for any reason (like any other) decide to now refuse to ship for me.
Next time do what every other person does and have it shipped to your home or somewhere it won't be sitting around for eight hours.

thanks, Kyle
Buckeye River Reptiles
Serpent Specialists

now Mike:

I've shipped over 50 snakes and NEVER had this problem. I communicated with you just fine. You are the one that was so incredibly paranoid that kept emailing me over and over(Just trying to communicate what's going on with YOUR snake, Mike. Usually it's the buyer emailing me to make sure everything is OK, but you had me doing all the work from the get-go...'you find me a place for you to ship it'). Not everyone Kyle keeps has a laptop with them 24/7. The dissappointment is on MY side for errors that you made. 5:30 is NOT the latest they could hold items FYI, I don't know where you are coming up with that.Probably from The FedEx lady that initiated a call to me, that's where!) The representative tat Fed ex told me it was there error having sent the box over to the other store and that it should have stayed where it was. 9pm was the latest time to pick up packages at the store we had agreed on so why would it matter if I come in at 2pm or 6pm!!!!!!!????? If it would have went to my home I guarrantee you the box would have been stolen as I live in an apartment! Do you think every NORMAL person lives in a house you piece of shit snob(I'm not sure how I've become a " piece of shit snob" because I thought he might live in a house. ). First I get extremely poor customer service (How's that? emailing you to let you know what's going on with YOUR snake.)and then I get an earful from the person that gave it!! I have purchased well over 150 snakes and NEVER have I had this kind of an experience.

Mike

my reply

kyle howard

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To [email protected]
From: kyle howard ([email protected])
Sent: Tue 10/26/10 11:46 PM
To: [email protected]
This message is too wide to fit your screen. Show full message
So following up and communicating is "paranoid", sounds more like projecting. People stay home from work to receive snakes (house or apartment or otherwise), I have many times, but that's because I care for their well being...The woman on the phone, who initiated the call to me, because you didn't give me your phone number ( although I should have asked and you should have offered) gave me that information ( you have the number call her and ask why this came to their attention), the box sitting there all day drew their attention. That's great you're into personal insults now though, very mature.
You're the one that left a snake sitting there for 8 hours, take responsibility, plan better and move on, I have.

If you can't respond without insults then please don't contact me again.


thanks, Kyle
Buckeye River Reptiles
Serpent Specialists

At the same time after my first email we had another set of them exchanged, I send this:

kyle howard

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To [email protected]
From: kyle howard ([email protected])
Sent: Tue 10/26/10 11:30 PM
To: [email protected]

I'm glad the snake is doing well, he should be ready to eat after he settles, hope he works out for you.

thanks, Kyle
Buckeye River Reptiles
Serpent Specialists

he send this in reply to that one:

mike udall

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To kyle howard
From: mike udall ([email protected])
Sent: Tue 10/26/10 11:37 PM
To: kyle howard ([email protected])
This message is too wide to fit your screen. Show full message
And I've never had to write any common and scientific name of anything. Not sure where you are coming up with this crap( It's called the LACY ACT Mike, you could've googled it). I always put that it is "live perishible goods" and I put "fragile" stickers on the outside So you admit to intentionally shipping illegaly?). Not a smart idea to put down snakes as very very few employees know the rules. Sorry about being a little disrespectful calling me a " piece of shit snob" is "a little disrespectful"?, it just pissed me off that you would blame me when in my mind I did NOTHING wrong.

Mike

and I send this:

Well, it looks like we have a nice email thread and a not so nice one...the snake's there, everything worked out, let's let it go.

thanks, Kyle
Buckeye River Reptiles
Serpent Specialists

To which my final one from him that I have not responded to is this:

mike udall

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To kyle howard
From: mike udall ([email protected])
Sent: Wed 10/27/10 12:00 AM
To: kyle howard ([email protected])

It will be over once I leave my BOI message. Prick.

Mike

Much adoo about nothing? Happy Mike ( link sent).
I do admit to two mistakes:
1. Not getting his phone number.
2. Not checking into that facility, although calling any of these places and asking about shipping live animals where the employees don't know squat would not be the best idea either.(we both could have been more diligent, he said it was fine and had shipped snakes there before).

 

[ForkedTung]

I would like to note that I DID NOT make this a Bad Guy thread although in this instance he was a Bad Buyer IMO. Honestly Mike probably isn't a bad guy but he pushed this and the sad thing is this was really mostly a result of poor communication, bad planning, and crazy FedEx rules....

 

[Alex G]

Sorry this happened to you, Kyle! This guy sounds like he was born and raised in Arizona, and I mean that in the worst way.

 

[ForkedTung]

Sorry this happened to you, Kyle! This guy sounds like he was born and raised in Arizona, and I mean that in the worst way.

LOL. PM sent

 

[eclements81]

The nerve of some people. I still don't get why he called you a piece of s#!* snob for thinking he lived in a house.

 

[greystandman]

LOL. I figured you would try to beat me to it to protect face Kyle. What really irritates me is that you were not completely honest in what you posted. I responded to your emails daily. Yes, you "repeatedly tried to contact me via email" within a 10 hour period before I responded. I'm not one of those that checks me email every 1/2 like some do. My point is that I did nothing wrong and end up driving 45 minutes out of my way to a different store than what we had agreed on and then you have the nerve to blame it all on me. The first problem is that you are not Fex-ex certified to ship snakes as the rep at the counter told me. That is fine and dandy but you made the mistake of putting down that it was a snake. In our previous emails you were contemplating sending the corn on a 2 day to save on shipping. Why would you get so bent out of shape on me picking the corn up 6 hours later when originally you were considering a whole 24 hours later? It just doesn't make sense Kyle. And my attack in calling you a piece of s*&* was in response to your attack of why I can't be like normal people and have the snake delivered to my house. In your email you attack and disrespect me first and then when I respond you mention how I am attacking you. Anyhow, I won't be doing business with you again because you are a paranoid person and panick when you don't have hour to hour communication with the customer. I have purchased from more than 15 different respectable members on cornsnakes.com and NEVER had anyone have an issue with me.

My advice to you next time would be to get the customers phone # and give them yours, don't flip out and panick when your customer does not respond "right away" to your emails, don't email so much, (folks I had 10 messages from him in a 5 hour period on cornsnakes.com) become certified to ship snakes via fedex, and don't write live cornsnake on the package when you are not!!!!

Mike

 

[greystandman]

Oh, and here are a couple of Kyle's emails.

"That's great you're into personal insults now though, very mature.
You're the one that left a snake sitting there for 8 hours, take responsibility, plan better and move on, I have."

So following up and communicating is "paranoid", sounds more like projecting. People stay home from work to receive snakes (house or apartment or otherwise), I have many times, but that's because I care for their well being...The woman on the phone, who initiated the call to me, because you didn't give me your phone number ( although I should have asked and you should have offered) gave me that information ( you have the number call her and ask why this came to their attention), the box sitting there all day drew their attention. That's great you're into personal insults now though, very mature.
You're the one that left a snake sitting there for 8 hours, take responsibility, plan better and move on.

 

[greystandman]

And for the record, I just obtained a new job and yesterday was my 2nd day on the job. I would surely have liked to stay home to pick up the corn but during the first three months you cannot be absent even once. It is ridiculous this even went to the BOI.

 

[greystandman]

Where do I post my view/perspective of what happened?

 

[Kristi23]

Where do I post my view/perspective of what happened?

You can post your view with any proof you have right here.

 

[greystandman]

Thanks Kristi. And one last thing....He is the one that mentioned this store:

Hey Mike, got the payment thanks, did you see that they are also pos het. amel and charcoal?
I can ship this Mon for Tues delivery.
Will this store work?

FedEx Kinko's is now
FedEx Office Print & Ship Center
3765 S Gilbert Rd, Suite 105
Gilbert, AZ 85297
(480) 722-0453

 

[ForkedTung]

LOL. I figured you would try to beat me to it to protect face Kyle. What really irritates me is that you were not completely honest in what you posted. No Mike, I was entirely honest, you are the one that lied, see below... I responded to your emails daily. Yes, you "repeatedly tried to contact me via email" within a 10 hour period before I responded. I'm not one of those that checks me email every 1/2 like some do. My point is that I did nothing wrong and end up driving 45 minutes out of my way to a different store than what we had agreed on and then you have the nerve to blame it all on me.
No Mike look at your first email to me, YOU blamed ME for it because I followed the law and it was sitting there ALL day, have you even bothered to look into the LACEY ACT yet? The first problem is that you are not Fex-ex certified to ship snakes as the rep at the counter told me.LIE That is fine and dandy but you made the mistake of putting down that it was a snake. In our previous emails you were contemplating sending the corn on a 2 day to save on shipping.
Liar, It wouldn't save me a dime and I never offer 2 day, but I do have the PM from cs.com

Re: Low pied sided bloodred
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForkedTung
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavman breeder
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForkedTung
Sure, He really was a miracle, literally the last of two eggs that didn't make it out of over 100 produced...should've seen me, so surprised and then that he proved pied bloodred inheritability for my line, so cool, I'll need your addy for shipping and then I'll give you the price to Paypal [email protected]
thanks, Kyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavman breeder
I would love to purchase your "miracle" bloodred. Can I paypal you the funds?

thx,

Mike Udall
I'm sorry to hear that! That would be a heartbreaker. My address is 4296 E Jasper Dr, Gilbert, AZ 85296. I would prefer that he is shipped to a fed ex store however. thx, Mike
Mike, standard overnight is $42 or priority is $48 (difference is 5 hrs. delivery time, both next day), your choice. Add that to $80 and I can send him this Monday, I found these hold facilities here:
http://fedex.com/Dropoff/SearchAction.do

Let me know, he's a great snake, great price and a true miracle. Kyle
Kyle,

I can't see the address but anything in Mesa or Gilbert will workEven here after I do the legwork you can't be bothered to pick a facility. I will send you the money tomorrow morning via paypal.

thx!

Mike

Why would you get so bent out of shape on me picking the corn up 6 hours later when originally you were considering a whole 24 hours later? It just doesn't make sense Kyle. And my attack in calling you a piece of s*&* was in response to your attack of why I can't be like normal people and have the snake delivered to my houseOH well, golly-gee Mike that makes sense . In your email you attack and disrespect me first and then when I respond you mention how I am attacking you. Anyhow, I won't be doing business with you againDo you seriously think I'd ever sell you another snake, much less a dust bunny from under my couch? because you are a paranoid person and panick when you don't have hour to hour communication with the customer. I have purchased from more than 15 different respectable members on cornsnakes.com and NEVER had anyone have an issue with me.Ya know I saw your own thread here you started on yourself for your business, and you know what makes a good business person, how they handle it when things go wrong, you're first instinct was to strike out at me in ignorance and then call names, I repeatedly tried to end it and you kept it up and now here we are, again are you Happy about this thread, it's what you wanted right, to waste more of my time.

My advice to you next time would be to get the customers phone # and give them yours, don't flip out and panick when your customer does not respond "right away" to your emails, don't email so much, (folks I had 10 messages from him in a 5 hour period on cornsnakes.com) become certified to ship snakes via fedex, and don't write live cornsnake I didn't write " live cornsnake" I wrote common/scientificon the package when you are not!!!!

Mike

FedEx certification Mike:

From: Ken Vilag ([email protected])
Sent: Mon 3/17/08 2:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Giancarlo Dorazio ([email protected]); Phil Rollo ([email protected])

Attachments: 1 attachment | Download all attachments (597.7 KB)
21663 Kyl...pdf (597.7 KB)
Attachments, pictures and links in this message have been blocked for your safety.
Show content | Always show content from [email protected]

FedEx Package Engineering has reviewed your packaging for live reptile shipments and your test report is attached.

Package Evaluation Result: Approved

As noted in the "Comments" section of your report, you must contact your FedEx Sales representative Giancarlo Dorazio and complete the required FedEx legal documentation prior to shipping.
Kenneth Vilag
Project Packaging Engineer
FedEx FCIS
2828 Business Park Drive
Building H, Suite 500
Memphis, TN 38118
901.224.3871

Seeing as you're such the expert shipper that is clueless about the LACEY ACT, let's see your docs Mike.

 

[ForkedTung]

And for the record, I just obtained a new job and yesterday was my 2nd day on the job. I would surely have liked to stay home to pick up the corn but during the first three months you cannot be absent even once. It is ridiculous this even went to the BOI.

Read my signature! Oh I guess you expect me to list that here for you as well, "it says mean what you say and say what you mean" I beleive that and I also believe when people respond to my "let's let it go " with

It will be over once I leave my BOI message. Pr#ck.

Mike

Hypocrite!

 

[ForkedTung]

Thanks Kristi. And one last thing....He is the one that mentioned this store:
Exactly, because you couldn't be bothered to look at the link I sent you even though you say in your emails you've had them shipped here before.

Hey Mike, got the payment thanks, did you see that they are also pos het. amel and charcoal?
I can ship this Mon for Tues delivery.
Will this store work?

FedEx Kinko's is now
FedEx Office Print & Ship Center
3765 S Gilbert Rd, Suite 105
Gilbert, AZ 85297
(480) 722-0453

Do you seriously want to continue down this road?
It's only bringing more attention to yourself.
I shipped a snake to a store you made me find for you and then sent emails to let you know what was going on when there was a problem from FedEx.
Then I get your blaming email and respond in kind, then after cussing at me, I attempt to end it and you come on with the BOI threat, take a step back and look at this for a minute...it's a waste of time and will not make you look any better.

 

[Kristi23]

Mike, I hope you know that the Lacey Act is there for a reason. All my packages are marked with the common name and scientific name plus live harmless reptile. It's not an optional thing.

 

[greystandman]

I'm about ready to go to work and I really don't have a lot of time for this pi$$ing match but I am Reptile Fed-ex certified and I don't put "live snake" on my boxes because fex-ex employee's do not know the policy. I've learned that from experience. Kyle, to get reptile certified you need to call the 1800-Gofedex number and let them know that is what you want to do. They send you a package via fed ex that contains instructions on how to properly pack a snake. You must demonstrate you know how to do this before they give you your authorization. Again, even after having this capability it is best to be as vague as possible as to not draw attention from the employee's as this particular policy is widely unknown and misinterpreted. The older fed-ex handbooks doe not even permit the shipping of reptiles at all!! If they have a current policy book it is very open to interpretation. I'm done with this nonsense.

Mike

 

[greystandman]

I agree with you Kristi, and I am well aware of the Lacey act. There are certain ways to do things legally without causing hold-ups due to ignorance.

Mike

 

[bloodybaroness]

Um Mike..... Kyle posted his certification information Fed Ex on this very page.

He IS reptile certified.

When I ship/recieve all of my packages have "Live Harmless Reptile" on them and them, the number in the box, and the scientific name.

 

[shane159]

Kyle is 100% in the right on this one, sorry but you should stay in contact constantly when shipping or receiving a snake. You should also ship the snake according to the rules in place. If you can't do these simple but correct procedures maybe you shouldn't be buying or shipping snakes??

 

[ForkedTung]

Mike, I hope you know that the Lacey Act is there for a reason. All my packages are marked with the common name and scientific name plus live harmless reptile. It's not an optional thing.

Thank you for that, although Mike doesn't really seem to care about that though, his words

And I've never had to write any common and scientific name of anything. Not sure where you are coming up with this crap

I'm about ready to go to work and I really don't have a lot of time for this pi$$ing match This is your baby Mike, you initiated this with your threat again after I had asked you to let it go.but I am Reptile Fed-ex certified Haven't seen it yet? and how with all your 'experience' do you not know about the Lacey Act?and I don't put "live snake" on my boxes because fex-ex employee's do not know the policy. I've learned that from experience. Kyle, to get reptile certified you need to call the 1800-Gofedex number and let them know that is what you want to do. They send you a package via fed ex that contains instructions on how to properly pack a snake. You must demonstrate you know how to do this before they give you your authorization.
Do you even read the posts here? I posted my certification letter note the part about
FedEx Package Engineering has reviewed your packaging for live reptile shipments and your test report is attached.

Package Evaluation Result: Approved
Again, even after having this capability it is best to be as vague as possible as to not draw attention from the employee's as this particular policy is widely unknown and misinterpreted. Hence the tiny writing I put that still follows the law, but a better idea would be to not leave a snake lying around a FedEX center for eight hours!The older fed-ex handbooks doe not even permit the shipping of reptiles at all!! If they have a current policy book it is very open to interpretation. I'm done with this nonsense.

Mike

Next time, If you can't pick up the snake within a reasonable time, make other arrangements.