• Posted 12/19/2024.
    =====================

    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

inbreeding......

Randy F

Randy F

Resident Demon
Resident Demon
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
1,829
Reaction score
152
Points
0
Location
San Diego, CA USA
No I am not asking you if you have had sexual relations with your sibling! Sorry it is just time to try and find another topic to get people talking and asking questions.

So what is acceptable inbreeding and what is not? Some people don't care and will breed brother to sister to get the desired clutch. Many believe this is why spiders have their neurological issues. I do know the very first spider and siblings were whored out to produce the clutch. Now if you talk to some big breeders it is totally acceptable to breed son back to mom or daughter to dad. This brings up the question of what chances are there for neurological issues, or deformities? Is the clutch worth the chance of having issues? Now where are other lines set as far as half siblings? Would you breed a female and male together that has the same father but different mothers?

I always try to find trades for like animals when working with recessives. If I am working on a albino clown I will try to find someone with the exact same baby to trade to keep both lines clean. Now how many think I am just crazy or how many think this is a good practice? If its ok to breed son to mom I could breed the double het male to mom to produce a visual male of one gene and possible het for the other? There is no way to breed them together though which is the best way to make the visual albino clown. Hopefully besides getting everyones views on this we can get someone the likes of Nick Mutton that can break down genes and dna for us all. Come on guys, dont just wait in the bushes and see what others post. Give your thoughts and maybe you will change others or someone will change yours, and maybe we will all learn something:thumbsup:
 
Not really an answer, but I have 1.1 het ultras from guy (A) and .1 from guy (B). The boy is about 300g and the female from guy (B) is about 600g. I'll breed them together and then get a boy from that clutch hopefully and breed him (nephew to .1(A). I'm from Louisiana and have seen cousins mate and their teeth look fine. Meaning not all spaced and pointy or anything like that. Oh yeah the cousins are people not snakes.lol, should be fine huh? Ron
 
I personally don't agree in most interbreeding, it just doesn't make sense for the long term of our hobby.

I feel that siblings shouldn't ever be crossed, and if it is 'step-sibblings' then only under the conditions where you know the lineages back 4-5 generations to be sure there was no mixing before.

As for mother-son or father-daughter, I personally think the only case that's acceptable is when trying to prove out a new gene/morph or a very very desirable trait. (i.e. Breeding a pastel male back to his pastel mom just to get supers is just silly)
 
I think most see line breeding as a better alternative than inbreeding. I'm not sure if it's still good to do, but better from what I understand.
 
RonzRoyalz said:
Not really an answer.......

I'm from Louisiana and have seen cousins mate and their teeth look fine. Meaning not all spaced and pointy or anything like that. Oh yeah the cousins are people not snakes.lol, should be fine huh? Ron
Click to expand...

Ron, not really looking for answers as much as trying to get people to talk. I love looking at peoples snakes, but try finding topics to get people talking and start discussions. This is to get peoples thoughts not what they are actually doing.

on the other note.....thanks for the laugh. That was funny and put a smile on my face since I have been cleaning tubs and water dishes for the past few hours and still not even half way done. :rofl:
 
My opinion on this subject has been posted too many times already, so this is just for the sake of participation.
 
well I dont think this is a good topic to get people to talk about, so can anyone else come up with a topic to strike up some conversation? Anything that will get people to actually talk and not have 500 hits with 3 people responding. Could be genetics, husbandry, products, if you have some stupid breeding dance that gets people to chime in!
 
I disagree...people SHOULD talk about this. The lack of response could be that some people are relatively uninformed on the subject (which doesn't mean they should stay out of it - what better way to learn), or that some people don't want to expose their stance on the matter because it could lose them business.
 
I really would like to hear some more responses, especially from the experienced breeders. I am just now beginning to get into breeding and would like to have some good information to go on as far as breeding ethics regarding this topic (e.g. what is and is not acceptable).
 
hhmoore said:
I disagree...people SHOULD talk about this. The lack of response could be that some people are relatively uninformed on the subject (which doesn't mean they should stay out of it - what better way to learn), or that some people don't want to expose their stance on the matter because it could lose them business.
Click to expand...

Thank you Harald, from you that actually means something because I respect your views. That is all I try to do is get people to talk. Stating your beliefs on this subject is not saying you have ibd! People can state their issue on abortion and never have one.

I will go out stating that I have bred son back to mom to try and prove out a dinker. I also am very strict on what I breed and try to not interbreed siblings. Do I honestly know how far you can go down the line without their being any chance of problems......NO. So there everyone can rule themselves out and talk about me! So now here is the question for whoever can answer it.....I breed my male hidden gene woma granite yb to a super pastel, pastel, pastel lesser, enchi, and spider. Now can I breed a male produced from any of these clutches to a female father sired with another female? Can I breed any of these babies to eachother from different mothers?

Hopefully this will get people to answer since I made me the scapegoat! If you read this and do not know, thank someone for posting something you learned from. This is how people get educated and people that know can share and help.:thumbsup:
 
I personally think that inbreeding and line breeding should be avoided if at all possible. I understand that in order to establish new morphs ESP rec genes, that this can be a needed step. Outside of that particular situation I don't see the rewards outweighing the risks to the future of the genetic quality of a species I love.
 
Randy, I would try to go at least once more removed on the half siblings. As I said this is my opinion and isn't always an option. I don't agree with sibling pairs of hets being sold together, as chances are the purchaser plans to breed them together and in most cases will breed the offspring from that pairing back to the opposite sexed parent. That is where the problem lies for, the irresponsible herper that would take the cheaper route with no regard for the animal or quality thereof. I personally would try to diversify the genetics of my lines as much as possible, but don't begrudge people who take a reasonable approach to furthering a particular gene that is in realitively low supply (HGW) and push the boundaries of what is deemed safe in normal circumstances.
 
Hopefully this will get people to answer since I made me the scapegoat! If you read this and do not know, thank someone for posting something you learned from. This is how people get educated and people that know can share and help.:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Hold up there Randy!! I'm the scapegoat!!! I just didn't go in depth about what I was doing. I just figured people would understand what my breeding pattern was gonna be and would tell me if it's ok or not.
You made me feel like I was 12 years old again and I was about to get beat my my abusive step-dad, I'm 41 now. Back to the therapist! Thanks Randy.
I'm new to this whole thing too.
 
MrBig said:
Randy, I would try to go at least once more removed on the half siblings. As I said this is my opinion and isn't always an option. I don't agree with sibling pairs of hets being sold together, as chances are the purchaser plans to breed them together and in most cases will breed the offspring from that pairing back to the opposite sexed parent. That is where the problem lies for, the irresponsible herper that would take the cheaper route with no regard for the animal or quality thereof. I personally would try to diversify the genetics of my lines as much as possible, but don't begrudge people who take a reasonable approach to furthering a particular gene that is in realitively low supply (HGW) and push the boundaries of what is deemed safe in normal circumstances.
Click to expand...

Hey Mike, so my thinking is right? I have 1.1 het ultra sibs and just got another .1 ultra from someone else. So breeding the 1. to the non sib .1 and then hopefully get a 1. baby to breed to his aunt should be ok? Thanks Ron
 
Ron I know Randy isn't directing this to anyone. Like me he enjoys open discourse about a subject we all love, out reptiles. This is simply to see how other people do things, and what may be a better way to do it in the future. We can all learn something if we open our minds
 
Oh, I wasn't being offensive.. I guess I should've put some lol's in there. I'll try not to joke around so much. Sorry. But still, is my thought process alright with how I plan to go about my breeding?
 
From my understanding each specific morph comes from a fairly small area and it's assumed they inbreed and line breed etc in the wild and have for quite some time.
Albino's from the wild, Lavs from the wild, hypo's from the wild, I would think means they are breeding fairly close to if not breeding their own relatives.
 
Jerry, that sounds just like the rest of the animals from shows I watch. I guess because we're suppose to be smarter than everything else on earth and have inbreed ourselves and seen the out come. We assume nothing should get a chance to inbreed. Plus we're suppose to have morals and it just don't sound right having sex with your parents or cousins no matter how sexy they are.
You see good traits and bad traits in a snake. You want to get rid of the bug eyes, duck bil, unproportioned head, under bite, wobbleness, so don't breed to those just cause it has a nice color to it. Keep them, kill them, but don't sell them to people who plan on breeding. Let them know it's bad traits and should not be bred instead of making a quick buck.
I need to learn more about the bad traits to look for and ask about before I buy. Plus I've been doing my reasearch and just buying from well established breeders. You get what you pay for.
 
No offense taken Ron, and we all enjoy joking around. Personally I wouldn't buy a brother sister pair of hets, or co-doms for that matter. So if in your situation I would trade the sister female for the same het type from a differant line. Or maybe sell her and buy a het that is closer to breeding, moving your time line up and cleaning up the genetics.

Jerry I agree that it happens regularly in the wild, but that isn't an arguement for continuing to do so in captivity. The same arguement has been used for natural incubation, feeding, husbandry and I don't agree that we should fall back on "it's done in nature" when we can and should provide better enviroments for our captive freinds.
 
Ron, I think most of the bad traits you have brought up are due to excessive inbreeding. Take bug eyed super lessers and butters, 9 out of 10 times when you breed completely seperate lines this can be avoided. Duck bills on super cinnies or blacks occurs alittle more commonly when lines aren't outcrossed, but can still happen even if they are. Some argue that the pin head and underbite are issues brought about by inbreeding. Regardless of what we say, or how good we educate, for some the simple answer is what's my bottom line. Until we no longer support the breeders who have this mentality, nothing will improve. The hard part is determining who is who.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top