IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT BALL PYTHON MOUTH INFECTION

[hussler1984]

can someone please clarify if an infection caused by a rat bite to the mouth is to be cured with the use of antibiotics or just kept clean until it heals? my reptile vet has given me 2 types of antibiotics to try, and the wound is still not getting better. in VPIs vol 2 book under mouth rot, im not saying it is mouth rot, it never mentions antibiotics. simply clean the puss out of the wound and it should heal up on its own? but my vet insisted on me giving antibiotics? is there anyone out there with REAL experence on this type of infection?

types of antibiotics used
BAYTRIL- addimistered every other day for 20 days
DANOFLAXICIN- addimistered every 42 hrs for up to 2 weeks

i did what the vet said and now have a very week snake that will not touch a meal! now that shes off the antibiotics she is looking a bit more lively and is not as limp as she was when she was on them!

i have had her temps higher than normal on both sides ever since i realized she was hurt. 95 on hot side and 85 on cool


someone please help me i dont want to loose her

 

[Matt2979]

I'm no vet, but I'm pretty sure the antibiotics were prescribed to kill or prevent any infection, as opposed to healing the wound. Snakes are miraculous healers and the wound should heal, if kept clean and free of infection. Until it does, I can't imagine the snake even trying to eat.

Did the vet suggest those higher temps? I know we do that (raise temps) for RI's, but that's for a specific reason. Unless the vet suggested raising them, I would go back to normal settings. You definitely don't want to do anything that would cause any stress. Best of luck with her!!

 

[Montoya]

I agree, with that type of wound it is probably more for prevention but it does seem like a lot though. I would not even attempt food until that heals completely. I hope you have a full recovery soon. Has it shed yet since the injury?

 

[hussler1984]

vanilla update

She has shed twice since the injury. I have been keeping the wound clean and it doesnt appear to be getting better or worse! Shes a very strong snake and acts as if its not even a problem. ill keep you updated on her progression. If it does progress...........

 

[Focal]

How much does the snake weigh and what was the recommended dosage of each? It's kind of weird that they gave you two types but I'm not a vet. Is one oral and the other a shot? I would also change her water out at least daily.

 

[hussler1984]

@Focal X

Weight 2000 grams
BAYTRIL 0.6cc every other day for 2 weeks
DANOFLAXICIN 0.6cc every 48 hours for up to two weeks
this was the recomended dosage given to me by a local reptile vet

i have been cleaning the wound daily and upon further notice it appears the orginal injured area on the lower jaw is causing the part of her lip above it (when her mouth is closed) is staring to show a bit of irritation? this was not the case a few days ago! the only affected spot was the bite itself!

which leads me to these questions. Is it possible that an infected rat bite may spread to other parts of the mouth? and is it contagious? if it can spread like that from top to bottom why wouldent it be able to spread to another snake?

 

[hussler1984]

??

Ok, i just thought about it a bit more! When i clean her mouth out she sperts out and attempts to pull her head out of my grip while wrapping around my arm, im sure it hurts.

maybe she has cut the top portion of her mouth with her lower teeth while twisting and turing in my grip, and spreading the infection to the newly injured area above?

Make sense??

 

[Focal]

Weight 2000 grams
BAYTRIL 0.6cc every other day for 2 weeks
DANOFLAXICIN 0.6cc every 48 hours for up to two weeks
this was the recomended dosage given to me by a local reptile vet

i have been cleaning the wound daily and upon further notice it appears the orginal injured area on the lower jaw is causing the part of her lip above it (when her mouth is closed) is staring to show a bit of irritation? this was not the case a few days ago! the only affected spot was the bite itself!

which leads me to these questions. Is it possible that an infected rat bite may spread to other parts of the mouth? and is it contagious? if it can spread like that from top to bottom why wouldent it be able to spread to another snake?

Ok, was the baytril oral? Were you giving both at the same time?

Just the baytril alone, if oral, doesn't seem to be much compared to what I was prescribed once for an RI (this is just food for thought so please don't take it as solid advice as I am not experienced much with infections and treatment).

I was prescribed enrofloxacin oral (generic baytril), 0.1 cc's daily for a 183gram ball python. I would assume that to be closer to 1 cc per day for a 2000gram snake, however, it may be different if you were prescribed two at the same time.

I would assume the infection was not cleared before the meds ran out or were ceased. You may need to seek a different vet for a second opinion.

 

[hussler1984]

both were injectjectibles, and baytril was administered first with a 2 week break before starting the enrofloxacin. im going to do some research and find a better vet. thank you for your time

 

[hhmoore]

While I have no issues with you seeking a "better vet", or even a second opinion, I don't really understand what your issue is with what the vet has told you.
The picture isn't very good - I can see that there is a problem, but it isn't clear enough to tell exactly what is going on in that shot...is there a piece of the lower jaw missing? is it folded up? is the bite just so swollen that it distorts the look of the "chin"? There is an injury that is going to take time to heal...whether the antibiotics were needed, or prophylactic, it was a reasonable choice with an injury like that (explanation to follow).

As for the latest questions: the infection - if there is one present - isn't going to just move from place to place; but, unfortunately, wounds are not always simple...there is the possibility of developing a systemic infection in addition to the localized issue(s).
Nobody is going to be able to give you definitive answers without examining the animal.

As far as the dosing, "normal" dose of enrofloxacin was/is 5 mg/kg (10 mg/kg for resistant or otherwise difficult infections), the frequency is 24-48 hrs. Any comparison of dosing is difficult, if not irrelevant, unless it is known what drug concentration is used, and whether it has been diluted. Unless you are drawing it out of the bottle yourself, don't assume that it hasn't been mixed/diluted for ease of administration.

 

[hussler1984]

@hhmoore

Thank you for the reply, there is a piece of the lower chin that has unfortunally turned black and scabbed away. Is a very small portion of the chin but yes its gone. the swelling of the lip has began to fold it as well. I did draw the medication out of the baytril bottle my self, and the enrofloxacin was given to me by the vet in smaller vials. possibly dilluted. I do appreciate the replies, but have yet to come across someone who has dealt with this type of injury first hand. The reason why i started this thread is to catch someones eye that may have the "Magic Cure". if at all there is one floating out there.

P.s. more photos coming soon

Thank you very very much
-Collin

 

[hhmoore]

I do appreciate the replies, but have yet to come across someone who has dealt with this type of injury first hand.

What makes you so sure?

I did draw the medication out of the baytril bottle my self, and the enrofloxacin was given to me by the vet in smaller vials.

Baytril IS enrofloxacin.

The reason why i started this thread is to catch someones eye that may have the "Magic Cure".

There is no magic cure - tissue takes time to heal.

 

[hussler1984]

Sorry not Enrofloxicin i meant Danofloxacin.

Thank you for your help, maybe im just being impatient.

 

[hussler1984]

UPDATE ON VANILLA

Still looks the same.........But is not getting worse by any means
Even though someone suggested to stop feeding her untill her mouth got better, I just had to because she looked very interested in food. She hasent lost her amazing ability to SLAM rats. I wouldent be supprised if she kills them the second she grabs them. SHES HAS A DEATH GRIP whice leads me to belive she may pull through this eventually.

Shes just enjoying her daily dip.
I clean her water out everyday with water and bleach. And wipe her tub out with nolvasan. Her bath consists of iodine, and a drop of peroxide to clear the brown water up.

ANY SUGGESTIONS THAT MAY SPEED HER RECOVERY?

Temps are 80 on cool 90 on hot

 

[hussler1984]

MORE PICS

THIS IS A PICTURE OF HER BEFOR I MOVED HER INTO A TUB WHERE I CAN REGULATE TEMPS BETTER.

DONT WORRY THE CRUSTY BOWL WAS SCRUBBED WITH A BRILLO PAD AND IS NOW SPOTLESS ITS WAS JUST HARD WATER BUILD UP. I CLEAN THAT PUPPY OUT ON A DAILY BASIS NOW. I WANT MY BABY BETTER

AS YOU CAN SEE SHES ONE OF THE NICEST VANILLAS OUT THERE, AND TO THINK SHES 5 YEARS OLD! SHE MAY VERY WELL BE ONE OF OUR FOUNDING VANILLAS!!!

I WANTED TO GET A BEFORE PICTURE SO I CAN POST AN AFTER PICTURE SOON

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS IM NOT SCREAMING I JUST LIKE IT

 

[hussler1984]

PROGRESS!

I WILL POST PICS ASAP.

THE SECRET CURE : penicillin

it was my last attempt to save her, and now she looks 75% better!

i gave her .4 cc orally for 5 days. and shes looking and i can tell felling much better.

 

[FireStorm]

I'm curious...why were you adding peroxide to her soak? I've been told by my equine vet to avoid hydrogen peroxide because it causes tissue damage. I would imagine the same applies to reptiles.

 

[AGoodwin]

I'm curious...why were you adding peroxide to her soak? I've been told by my equine vet to avoid hydrogen peroxide because it causes tissue damage. I would imagine the same applies to reptiles.

I dont know about tissue damage, but I do know that peroxide kills GOOD bacteria just as well as the bad. For this reason, it is only recommended to use it during the initial cleaning of a wound. Any subsequent use can actually hinder the healing process.

 

[Heart and Soul Reptiles]

Personally, this is one of the main reasons I suggest only feeding prekilled and thawed rats.
But, aside from that, if you must continue to do it for whatever reason, and dealing with her now, I do suggest a second vet opinion and two antibiotics doesn't sound bad. I've had two antibitotics for a simple abcessed tooth on my burm. Mouths are dirty dirty places. I can't imagine giving any less than 2 especially when a rats mouth was involved.
I myself do cleanse with a peroxide mix if there looks to be bad tissue or in an oral wound, because peroxide is just that if you read the bottle, an "oral debriding agent".
If she needs a meal, do not give her a live or even stunned rat. I suggest assist feeding her a prekilled very small rodent that you can work into the back of her throat with your hand, without having her strike at anything with that lip, once in her throat she should swallow it fine if you get at least the head down most of her throat and the sholders hooked on her teeth.
good luck!

 

[hussler1984]

THANK YOU

SHE SEEMS TO BE GETTING BETTER. MUCH BETTER! MAYBE THE PEROXIDE BATH WAS A LITTLE MUCH BECAUSE ALONG WITH THE PENICILLIN I STOPPED GIVING HER THE BATH AND SHE IS GETTING BETTER, IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE BATH MIXED WITH PEROXIDE SLOWING HER RECOVERY THE WHOLE TIME.