It took me awhile to decide to post this, but I thought other potential customers should know what they're getting in to. I purchased a pair of ltc Uroplatus sikorae from Erik back in August. The transaction went well, the geckos looked healthy. Erik had informed me he doesn't do fecals on his animals, and leaves it to his importer to medicate them, so I knew before getting them they would most likely have parasites and would need to be medicated. All my new animals are kept in quarantine from everything else for a least a month, and I usually have fecals done on at least several occasions. The sikorae tested positive for Coccidea and Flagellates, and were treated with Ponazuril and Flagyl. They are currently doing fine.
We saw an ad in September that he was selling most of his Uro. collection, including some guentheri pairs and lineatus, two species I've always wanted to work with. We bought a pair of cb guentheri, and picked out three ltc lineatus. Unfortunately shortly before shipping, one of the female lineatus had trouble with a shed and dropped her tail, so he replaced her with another. We received the 5 geckos on Oct 5th. They were all packed in bags, in the same insultated box. I was surprised that he had packed the lineatus in bags (which weigh 60+ grams) in loose with the guentheri in bags (which weigh less than 15 grams). The guentheri were rather stressed, and the female wasn't moving much. I gave them a tepid shower to rehydrate them, and set them up in their quarantine tank.
The guentheri never seemed to move much. I saw the male eat once, and he defecated twice in about a week, but the female just laid on the bottom never moving. I emailed Erik a few days after receiving them, to say they seemed rather lethargic. He told me that they don't move much, that even waiting up at night I won't see them move (I've heard from other breeders that have these that they're one of the more active/entertaining species to watch). He made some suggestions for my tank, and I added some more branches, and a live plant in addition to the fake vines. I would find them on different spots of the floor during the day, so I assumed they were moving a bit more, and they weren't losing weight, so I notified Erik on Oct 19 that they seemed to be doing better.
On Oct 22nd the female was having trouble with a shed, and seemed really lethargic, barely able to hold on to my finger. I put her and the plant in a tepid shower, hoping the water would help her perk back up. I checked on her every 5 mins, the first and second check she was drinking, the third she was dead and hanging upside down from the branch, still clutching it with her hind feet. I picked her up and noticed her mouth was open. Then I saw movement, about 10-15 small white worms were crawling up her throat, trying to get out. Several more of the small worms crawled out her ears. I quickly grabbed my phone and took a video, because I knew no one would believe it unless they saw it. I took her in the kitchen and did a necropsy, I wanted to do it before all the worms escaped. More continued crawling out her ears as I cut her open, they were wriggling on my gloves. I found a few more inside her chest cavity, outside her lungs, but never opened up the lungs themselves. There were lots in her throat when I cut it open, and more inside her head trying to get out her ears still. They were tiny and thin, white, and very active.
I immediately emailed Erik, and his response was he thought they were maggots. I found her within 2-3 minutes of her passing, and according to my vet, maggots can't infect the inside of a live gecko like that. He put off answering most of my emails, and only agreed to a refund when I told him I knew he had just purchased these animals a couple months prior from a well respected gecko breeder, and had been mixing that breeders cb and treated ltc's with his untreated wc's. He denied all of that and became rather hostile, saying none of his animals ever had parasites, but agreed to a refund.
I originally purchased from him after reading his article in Reptiles Magazine, I thought he was a well established and respected breeder. Since then I have found out he's a 22 year old kid living with his parents, and trying to pass himself off as having bred reptiles for over 16 years and as working at getting his masters in Zoology (he's really getting a bachelors in computer science and business). He seems to have no clue at all how parasites work, and makes rather far fetched claims regarding his breeding operation and experience.
I documented everything, sorry that there's so much of it.
Videos of the worms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofePM8kALk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiUilshEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb3VSYMWNgI
Emails:
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Bonnie Person" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Date: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:15 PM
Hello,
The refund of $650 has been processed. Please confirm that you recieved it.
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/26/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 26, 2011, 11:37 PM
Hi Erik,
I don’t mean to insult your collection, I just know that they did not come from mine. I have had fecals run on everything in my house, except the lineatus and guentheri, which I will be taking in tomorrow (they’re closed on Weds). Everything has either come back clean, flagellates, or flagellates and coccidea (the ltc sikorae), I have never had an animal with a test that came back positive for worms. If you can do the refund of $650 as either an actual refund (not sure how long ago I paid, it was awhile before it was cool enough to ship), or as a gift so that I don’t get hit with paypal fees, that would work. I’ll be discussing with my vet tomorrow treatment options for the guentheri. He told me treating worms that are in the body cavity, and not in the digestive system, usually results in the death of the animal because they can’t excrete the dead worms, so the worms all rot and release toxins in the body, but I don’t see any other option
but treatment for me to feel safe having him in the house. I too want to put this behind me, it’s been a rather frightening situation and I want nothing more than for it to be resolved. Thank you for your cooperation.
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:04 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I did buy Derek's Collection and that is where some of your animals came from. I bought his collection so I could go through it, find unrelated animals, and keep them. However I have been breeding Uroplatus for over a decade, I have an article in Reptiles Magazine, and over 700 Uroplatus in my collection right now, not to mention the hundreds of other animals. Derek only had ~130 Uroplatus that I got, so not much considering what I already had. So the "majority" of my collection is not from him. You can believe that or not, but I produce hundreds per year as it is. And FYI they are not "dropping like flies". They are doing great and I have not had one issue with any of my shipments this year and even the Zoo’s that bought some said they did fecal tests and came back clean (most all zoos do a fecal test prior to releasing the animals from quarantine).
The pictures provided of the male guentheri looks fine. There is absolutely nothing outwardly wrong with him. His tail looks good, he looks hydrated and like he is eating/doing fine.
As for the feces, it is not always firm. Especially if you mist and there is a high humidity it will look like that under normal circumstances.
I still don't believe it was any parasite they had here. If it were I surely would have seen something by now. I have dropped off several more fecal samples at a local friends and he said they were all clean and that was from everyone that was in surrounding cages (other guentheri).
Even though you stated several times they were doing much better, and my TOS clearly state there is only a 3 day guarantee, and you threw out the body and any "evidence" of worms I will refund you money. However there are only a few options that are fit for this situation. Next week’s weather will be far too cold to try shipping the male back. I am unsure of the week after that although I will be out of the country from November 10th-22nd. So I can't receive anything during that time period.
The best idea I can come up with is you keep the male and I will issue a refund of $650. Basically you are getting him for free. If I refunded you the $725 and you then paid shipping to get the male back to me you are basically at $650 after shipping. I am also unsure when shipping him back would even be an option with the winter weather.
I did not mean to sound harsh in anything I said above. I am just standing by a collection I have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into and I don’t sell junky animals.
I hope we can get this resolved in a cordial manner and put this behind us. I am glad to hear the lineatus and sikorae are doing well.
Please let me know what you would like to do.
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/26/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 26, 2011, 4:41 PM
Hi Erik,
I’m sorry, but those two options are unacceptable. If I were to take a replacement, who’s to say the male doesn’t have the same thing the female did, and would transmit it to her. Plus he’s not looking too great himself, not skinny, but spends most of his time curled up on the floor. His feces are all also mostly urates, with a tiny amount of runny fecal matter, there hasn’t been enough for me to scrape up and get to the vet, but I doubt chest cavity worms would be in the fecal anyway. I took pictures of him, his weight, his cage, his feces, etc. He’s sitting on the plant in the pic because we just put him back from weighing him, otherwise he is always sitting on the floor. I also took pics of the lineatus and their runny feces. I know you got the majority of your Uro’s this past summer from Derek, so the statement that you have 700 of them and they haven’t been dropping like flies really doesn’t mean much. The guentheri were obviously
stressed from shipping, they’ve been rather lethargic since I got them, I’m sure bouncing around in bags with 60+ gram geckos in the same box didn’t help much. Any parasite they could have had from you could have easily taken over after a stressful event like that. I know $725 is a lot of money to ask to be refunded, but it’s an awful lot of money to ask me to lose. I’ve been disabled the past 6 years, that was several months of me saving from doing odd jobs while recovering from a major surgery, but I jumped at owning a species I never thought I’d get to have, it’s an awful large sum to ask me to write off too.
Guenther, taken today
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1772.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1774.jpg
Lineatus feces (in a screen cage for quarantine), taken today
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1798.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1793.jpg
Lineatus, taken today, the one still has a healing nose rub from shipping
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1791.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1788.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1785.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1784.jpg
Guenther quarantine cage, taken today (the carrot is in there for the crickets)
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1775.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1782.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1781.jpg
Guenther poop
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1779.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1778.jpg
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:51 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I have never heard of maggots eating anything alive either. I was just saying they look as if they were maggots and I personally have never seen any kind of parasite that even remotely looks like that. What baffles me is that they were coming out of its ear and were in its body cavity...
I still have not heard back from my vet that I always deal with. I will call him tomorrow to see if hes even in the office.
Unfortunately being out of my care for almost a month I can't take the male back. I have no place to put him either and it is snowing in town right now. I have never had any issue with any of my specimens and I currently keep over 700 Uroplatus.
I would be willing to refund you for the female or send you a replacement.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 10/25/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 2:06 PM
Hi Erik
I talked to my vet yesterday, he said they couldn’t be maggots if she was freshly dead, that there were some situations where he had found maggots or worms inside lizards, but it was after they had been dead for awhile, and usually on soil substrates. I sent him the videos and pictures, he was going to get back to me with any other information he had, but said most likely they were internal parasites. I also spoke to a couple of gecko breeders I respect, and showed them the videos and pictures as well. One said she most likely was stressed from shipping, and any internal parasites she had prior to shipping completely took over once she was stressed. Both breeders had never seen anything like that before, but they both thought they were internal parasites/worms. I’m rather uncomfortable keeping the male here, he’s well separated from my other animals, and seems to still be drinking and eating, I just dread what he might possibly have, and worry he
will have a similar fate as her. I would like to send him back to you, this week if at all possible. If you could please get back to me so we could work something out, I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:24 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Now that I can see the video those look more like maggots then any kind of parasite I have done research on or ever seen.
I did forward the video and picture links to a good friend who is a vet to see if he might have any idea. I will let you know asap as soon as I hear anything.
Did you happen to keep any of the worms?
Thanks Erik
--- On Sat, 10/22/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 4:37 PM
Sorry the video is so blurry, my cell phone and camera aren’t the greatest. There were about 10 worms trying to crawl out her throat, my guess is I saw her drinking in the shower about 5 mins before she passed, and I think maybe the worms were drowning? They were crawling up her throat, and there were also several crawling out her ears, but I was too freaked out to get a shot of that. You can see it in one of the still pics of her on her side though, there is a worm crawling out her ear. There were also several around her lungs in her chest cavity when I opened her up, but the majority were in the throat. It’s kind of hard to see the worms in the throat pic, the other two videos show single worms that were coming out of her chest, I had them crawling around on my gloves as well. She was still fat, and seemed fine other than she’s been rather lethargic since I got her, and she was having trouble with this shed. The boy seems to be a lot more active,
and he still seems ok. They were in quarantine away from everyone else in their modified sterilite, I had wanted to get a fecal before I put them in their final cage.
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z257/bonnielorraine22/guentheri necropsy/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofePM8kALk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiUilshEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb3VSYMWNgI
From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:31 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Awesome! Great news.
I am at work right now but will email you everything once I get home.
Well right now all the pietschmanni, phantasticus, and ebenaui are on hold for a Zoo.. They are looking at their budget and getting back with me later today or tomorrow. So I might not have them available, but I do have a ton of phant and eben hatchlings being raised up..
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/19/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: "Erik Strait" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 11:14 AM
Hi Erik,
just wanted to let you know that the guentheri seem to be doing much better since I added the plant. They’re going to the bathroom, crickets are disappearing, and I keep finding them in different locations in the tank, so they seem to be moving around more now. I was just wondering on the genetics on them? I added them to my iHerp list, so if you could please give me any information you have on the parents it would be greatly appreciated. Any luck on selling the ebens? I saw you lowered the price. If you have them around awhile longer, I may be able to scrape together some more gecko money.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 5:30 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I would try to get them into a cage with more ventilation when you can, but it sounds just fine right now.
They defiantly are from a drier area but still need some misting.
Temps sound fine.
I feed them small 1/4"-3"8" crickets/roaches.
They defiantly are a more shy species compared to others. I don't normally stay up and watch them, however when I have they always tend to be more shy, also they are probably still settling in.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
there’s about a 12”x8” hole cut in the lid and filled in with screen. I haven’t been spraying them as much as the sikorae and lineatus, since I read they’re from a slightly drier area. Temps have been 78 in the day, and down to about 65 at night. We tried medium crickets at first, they ate two, but I put smalls in there last night, even though they’re larger than most of my medium cricket eating geckos, I was worried maybe they were intimidating them? I got some lateralis for them too, but they’re not up to feeding size yet. The reason I’m worried is they don’t seem to move much at night either. I usually sit in the living room with the lights out for a while at night, until about 1 am, and I can hear the sikorae hunting, and the lineatus hunting, but the guentheri stay hiding in the fake plants.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 2:31 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Good to hear about the lineatus.
They are nocturnal, so they wont be active durring the day. They are definatly one of the more laid back species and they seem to prefer branches and vines rather than walking on the sides of tanks.
Are they getting plenty of ventalation,? However a sterlite should be ok in the mean time, juts be sure that mold doesn't start to grow because of the high humidity and daily mistings. What are your temperatures? What size food items are you feeding?
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2011 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I just wanted to say the lineatus are doing great, eating well, and the one with the mouth rub has it scabbed over, but I’m a bit worried about the guentheri. They’re drinking, but don’t seem to move around much, and have only eaten two crickets in the past two days. I have them in a modified sterilite for now, with the lid cut out and screen glued in, paper towels on the bottom, and fake vines and thinner branches for them to walk on since people said they like the smaller twigs, but they hide all day and I don’t see them move around much. Is there anything I can do to make them happier?
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:11 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
That's weird. I didn't see anything on any of them when I packed them up. Just let me know how it looks when they settle in, they are super hardy though.
Ya, lineatus get big, but gorgeous. They are defiantly a favorite of mine with their black tongue. Just wait until you see them fully fired up at night. The stripes are insane!
Just let me know if you have any further questions. As always, Thank You for the business.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hey Erik,
I went to get them at 10:30 this morning, just finished showering and caging everybody (separately of course). They all look good, just a bit stressed, and one of the lineatus had a minor mouth abrasion, but it should heal up fine. The lineatus are huge!!! We’ve gotten them in at the store before, but never that big, very impressive animals I’ve never actually seen the Guenthers in person before, so cute. I’m naming them Ryobi and Makita for their little spade drill bit shaped tails. Thank you, as always you send great animals!
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:32 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Here is the tracking number: 795260646616.
You should get an email from FedEx also. I put both of your names on the box because I wasn't sure who was going to get it.
I put everyone in separate bags because the guentheri in deli cups didn't work in this size box. But I put them in bags all the time to ship them. I just wanted to let you know.
Please let me know when they arrive. Feel free to email or call. However I do have some early morning meetings I might be in but you can leave a voice mail. 303-905-1592.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
Weds morning delivery sounds good. If you could please have them held at the Fedex hub again for pick up that would be awesome.
My female finally passed 2 days ago, several hours before her vet visit to discuss surgery. She hung in there and fought it for a long time though so wasn’t very unexpected. Never really seen a mossy hang in there and fight to live before, just made it all the sadder to watch. We did the necropsy the other night and took pics, I posted everything here
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...us/59178-sikorae-necropsy-graphic-photos.html along with a description of what we found and what happened. So in the end, no blockage, just a bunch of eggs, two of which were rock hard, solid, and deformed.
Please let me know when you ship the geckos, I could use some cheering up this week.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:06 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Hopefully you received my other email. Please let me know.
How has your sikorae been?
Also for shipping just let me know what day you would like to receive them. I have quite a few shipments going out Tuesday for a Wednesday delivery this week. So that would be the easiest day for me to ship if you will be around Wednesday.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I hadn’t heard back on a shipping date yet, which is probably for the best. One of my female sikorae took a turn for the worse, she has an impaction from we’re guessing cricket or dubia parts, she’s been on paper towels this whole time and nothing is showing up on xray. The vet has tomorrow off, but said if she’s still around by Thurs he wants to try an enema and if that doesn’t work than surgery, but from the looks of things she won’t be around that long. Have you ever had anything like this happen? My friend has been trying to massage it out of her, but he said it’s now too large to fit out of her pelvis, he can push it down towards her vent, but it gets stuck. I’ve been doing showers, soaks, and mineral oil, all with no result.I’m at a complete loss on what to do, she’s my favorite gecko. Hopefully next week will be ok for you to ship, things shouldn’t feel as frantic and bleak by then.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:10 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I did get my shipping bags in for the larger Uroplatus. So I am free to ship whenever you are ready.
However upon checking the Uroplatus tonight, it seems the single female had some trouble shedding and dropped her tail with the shedding skin still on it. Im not sure what could have caused this. But I would rather not sell her until I know she is back in full health. That said, we have two options, I do have another lone female I could add in her place or we could do a refund.
Just let me know what you would prefer to do.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I just went over my budget and it looks like I won’t be able to come up with much more than $200 for a pair of ebens, so I guess I will have to wait until next time you have some available. I just looked at our temps again, and this week is going to be warm until about Weds anyway, they keep saying that the next week will be cooler, and once it gets to be next week they change it to say “just kidding, it’s now going to be 85” sigh. Hopefully next week really is cooler.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I did get it however it was sent via Echeck so I would prefer to wait to ship until it clears.
What kind of price were you thinking for the ebenaui? Just let me know asap as I have 3 parties interested in buying everything I have left.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
we sent you the payment on the lineatus yesterday, hopefully you get it soon. I was wondering if you might be able to do a discount for a pair of ebens? I had a couple pairs of phants 6 yrs ago, and have been wanting to get some of the smaller species again. I was supposed to get a pair of wc a back in August for $160, but unfortunately the wholesaler ran out before my friend could place his order. I’m rather low on funds atm, we went wayyyy above our gecko budget this month, but I figured I would ask anyways since you have quite a few of them available.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:21 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy with a few new grants that we got at work and trying to figure everything out.
Anyhow, C46 consist of LTC pair. Based on their size upon import early this year I would guess they are about 1.5 years old. Only being placed together a few months ago I have not had any eggs, although she looks very fat right now. C43 was on the same import as C46.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hey Erik,
just wanted to check back with you about the info for the lineatus.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:11 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I am already at work for the day, but I will get you the extra info on them a little later when I get home.
No deposit needed. I trust you two. Just let me know when you will have them paid off and I will just hold them for you..
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/13/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:59 AM
Hi Erik,
we just saw your lineatus pics, and are very interested in the pair C46 and the lone female C43, any extra info for these? Also, would you be able to take a deposit on them until Friday?(paycheck comes Thurs evening).
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:08 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Not a problem. I dont mind holding them until temperatures are adequate.
I did finally. Sorry it took so long. I still have lineatus pictures and a few more sikorae to put up. Here is the link. http://www.flickr.com/photos/67340260@N04/sets/
Thanks Erik
--- On Mon, 9/12/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 9:51 PM
Hi Erik,
just wondering if you ever got pictures of the Eben’s up. Temps are still a bit spiky here, so probably will be a couple more weeks before it’s safe to ship the guentheri. Hit 86 here today, and says it will be warmer again tomorrow. Thanks for holding them for us.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:39 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I recieved the funds. Thank You.
Just let me know. If its hot I definatly prefer to just mark them sold for you and hold them until the weather allows for shipping. The animals safety is always #1.
I am adding the group #'s to the ebenaui photos now, so I will send you pictures and prices soon.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 9:36 PM
Hi Erik,
I just sent you the $775 for pair C223. Just because I’m a total sadist, and feel like torturing myself, if you already have pics of the ebenaui taken and available to send, and you still have some in a week or so, my bday is next week, so I may have some birthday money to scrape together for another pair, plus I can always sell more plants, or maybe a kidney heh. The weather this week is pretty hot, and I doubt you’re ready to ship out that soon anyway. Supposedly it’s going to be cooler next week and the week after.
Thank you so much
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:11 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Ya, #223 and #220 are both CB pairs.
The pair was priced at $800 (I forgot to mention that the CB pairs were $100 extra though) and shipping would be $50 for a total of $850. However due to my error how about I knock off $75 and we do $775? That way there is only an extra $25 charge instead of $100 for both animals being CB?
If you want we can do the $760 and the rest whenever you can. I dont mind shipping before you send the remainer if you wanted. Our last deal went just fine so I dont mind.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 8:27 PM
Hi Erik,
Justin just got home, and we both agree we really like the 223, the male’s coloring is gorgeous. I had $760 saved up, since I figured the shipping might get a bit high, I can try to scrape some extra together tonight though. I just sent Justin to the bank with the cash, just let me know what you would like for them, and I’ll work on coming up with the rest this evening.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:09 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Pair #222: Consists of a WC male from early this year and a CB F2 female born in late 2009. They have yielded a few clutches thus far. The WC male was paired with her to increase genetic diversity.
Pair #223: Consists of two CB animals. both born mid 2009. A few more clutches from these two since they have been together longer then the previous pair. I cool my animals 3-4 months out of the year so they get plenty of rest period.
I forgot to mention that pair #223 was $100 more because they were both CB. However since I forgot the mention that previously we can arrange something to suit us both if you wanted that pair.
I included shipping in the price of the sikorae because I was over run with them. I have sikorae everywhere! Where as these are far more rare. Shipping has been running around $70 and I will only charge $50 and I will cover the rest. I can ship multiple pairs for the same shipping cost if you interested in another guentheri pair or any other Uroplatus.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 7:40 PM
Hi Erik,
thanks for the pictures! I really like C222 and C223. Can I get some info on these two pairs to help me decide? Age, cb or ltc, breeding or nonproven, etc. Justin gets home in 20 mins, and I’ll be handing him my giant wad of cash from the reptile show to go deposit in the atm, so I can send you a paypal payment in an hour or so. What would the shipping be to 92804? Last time we ordered from you, you covered the shipping, so not sure what the cost was.
Thanks so much,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:32 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Sorry about the delay. I have been backed up on work and didn't have time to upload photos. Here are 4 pairs that I have. I thought I had 5 left, but it is only these 4.
Thanks Erik
--- On Sun, 9/4/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 12:30 AM
Hi Erik,
sounds good. I'm doing really well at the NARBC show this weekend, I think that means I deserve a new pair of geckos heh. A question on cage size. Our gecko cage racks have shelves to fit either the 24"x18"x18" Exo Terras or the 24"x18"x24" Exo Terras, which size do you think the guentheri would prefer? I want to start setting up their tank asap so I have it ready whenever I get them (crossing my fingers you still have them left after I get home from the show tomorrow).
Thanks,
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Bonnie Person
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I will be taking pictures this weekend and sending them out to people who requested them. So I will send you some soon.
Thanks Erik
--- On Fri, 9/2/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 12:56 PM
Hi Erik,
I just saw your ad on kingsnake for the guentheri, I was wondering if you had any additional information or pictures of the pairs? I would be very interested in getting one.
Thank you,
Bonnie & lt; /tr>
We saw an ad in September that he was selling most of his Uro. collection, including some guentheri pairs and lineatus, two species I've always wanted to work with. We bought a pair of cb guentheri, and picked out three ltc lineatus. Unfortunately shortly before shipping, one of the female lineatus had trouble with a shed and dropped her tail, so he replaced her with another. We received the 5 geckos on Oct 5th. They were all packed in bags, in the same insultated box. I was surprised that he had packed the lineatus in bags (which weigh 60+ grams) in loose with the guentheri in bags (which weigh less than 15 grams). The guentheri were rather stressed, and the female wasn't moving much. I gave them a tepid shower to rehydrate them, and set them up in their quarantine tank.
The guentheri never seemed to move much. I saw the male eat once, and he defecated twice in about a week, but the female just laid on the bottom never moving. I emailed Erik a few days after receiving them, to say they seemed rather lethargic. He told me that they don't move much, that even waiting up at night I won't see them move (I've heard from other breeders that have these that they're one of the more active/entertaining species to watch). He made some suggestions for my tank, and I added some more branches, and a live plant in addition to the fake vines. I would find them on different spots of the floor during the day, so I assumed they were moving a bit more, and they weren't losing weight, so I notified Erik on Oct 19 that they seemed to be doing better.
On Oct 22nd the female was having trouble with a shed, and seemed really lethargic, barely able to hold on to my finger. I put her and the plant in a tepid shower, hoping the water would help her perk back up. I checked on her every 5 mins, the first and second check she was drinking, the third she was dead and hanging upside down from the branch, still clutching it with her hind feet. I picked her up and noticed her mouth was open. Then I saw movement, about 10-15 small white worms were crawling up her throat, trying to get out. Several more of the small worms crawled out her ears. I quickly grabbed my phone and took a video, because I knew no one would believe it unless they saw it. I took her in the kitchen and did a necropsy, I wanted to do it before all the worms escaped. More continued crawling out her ears as I cut her open, they were wriggling on my gloves. I found a few more inside her chest cavity, outside her lungs, but never opened up the lungs themselves. There were lots in her throat when I cut it open, and more inside her head trying to get out her ears still. They were tiny and thin, white, and very active.
I immediately emailed Erik, and his response was he thought they were maggots. I found her within 2-3 minutes of her passing, and according to my vet, maggots can't infect the inside of a live gecko like that. He put off answering most of my emails, and only agreed to a refund when I told him I knew he had just purchased these animals a couple months prior from a well respected gecko breeder, and had been mixing that breeders cb and treated ltc's with his untreated wc's. He denied all of that and became rather hostile, saying none of his animals ever had parasites, but agreed to a refund.
I originally purchased from him after reading his article in Reptiles Magazine, I thought he was a well established and respected breeder. Since then I have found out he's a 22 year old kid living with his parents, and trying to pass himself off as having bred reptiles for over 16 years and as working at getting his masters in Zoology (he's really getting a bachelors in computer science and business). He seems to have no clue at all how parasites work, and makes rather far fetched claims regarding his breeding operation and experience.
I documented everything, sorry that there's so much of it.
Videos of the worms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofePM8kALk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiUilshEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb3VSYMWNgI
Emails:
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Bonnie Person" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Date: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:15 PM
Hello,
The refund of $650 has been processed. Please confirm that you recieved it.
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/26/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 26, 2011, 11:37 PM
Hi Erik,
I don’t mean to insult your collection, I just know that they did not come from mine. I have had fecals run on everything in my house, except the lineatus and guentheri, which I will be taking in tomorrow (they’re closed on Weds). Everything has either come back clean, flagellates, or flagellates and coccidea (the ltc sikorae), I have never had an animal with a test that came back positive for worms. If you can do the refund of $650 as either an actual refund (not sure how long ago I paid, it was awhile before it was cool enough to ship), or as a gift so that I don’t get hit with paypal fees, that would work. I’ll be discussing with my vet tomorrow treatment options for the guentheri. He told me treating worms that are in the body cavity, and not in the digestive system, usually results in the death of the animal because they can’t excrete the dead worms, so the worms all rot and release toxins in the body, but I don’t see any other option
but treatment for me to feel safe having him in the house. I too want to put this behind me, it’s been a rather frightening situation and I want nothing more than for it to be resolved. Thank you for your cooperation.
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:04 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I did buy Derek's Collection and that is where some of your animals came from. I bought his collection so I could go through it, find unrelated animals, and keep them. However I have been breeding Uroplatus for over a decade, I have an article in Reptiles Magazine, and over 700 Uroplatus in my collection right now, not to mention the hundreds of other animals. Derek only had ~130 Uroplatus that I got, so not much considering what I already had. So the "majority" of my collection is not from him. You can believe that or not, but I produce hundreds per year as it is. And FYI they are not "dropping like flies". They are doing great and I have not had one issue with any of my shipments this year and even the Zoo’s that bought some said they did fecal tests and came back clean (most all zoos do a fecal test prior to releasing the animals from quarantine).
The pictures provided of the male guentheri looks fine. There is absolutely nothing outwardly wrong with him. His tail looks good, he looks hydrated and like he is eating/doing fine.
As for the feces, it is not always firm. Especially if you mist and there is a high humidity it will look like that under normal circumstances.
I still don't believe it was any parasite they had here. If it were I surely would have seen something by now. I have dropped off several more fecal samples at a local friends and he said they were all clean and that was from everyone that was in surrounding cages (other guentheri).
Even though you stated several times they were doing much better, and my TOS clearly state there is only a 3 day guarantee, and you threw out the body and any "evidence" of worms I will refund you money. However there are only a few options that are fit for this situation. Next week’s weather will be far too cold to try shipping the male back. I am unsure of the week after that although I will be out of the country from November 10th-22nd. So I can't receive anything during that time period.
The best idea I can come up with is you keep the male and I will issue a refund of $650. Basically you are getting him for free. If I refunded you the $725 and you then paid shipping to get the male back to me you are basically at $650 after shipping. I am also unsure when shipping him back would even be an option with the winter weather.
I did not mean to sound harsh in anything I said above. I am just standing by a collection I have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into and I don’t sell junky animals.
I hope we can get this resolved in a cordial manner and put this behind us. I am glad to hear the lineatus and sikorae are doing well.
Please let me know what you would like to do.
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/26/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 26, 2011, 4:41 PM
Hi Erik,
I’m sorry, but those two options are unacceptable. If I were to take a replacement, who’s to say the male doesn’t have the same thing the female did, and would transmit it to her. Plus he’s not looking too great himself, not skinny, but spends most of his time curled up on the floor. His feces are all also mostly urates, with a tiny amount of runny fecal matter, there hasn’t been enough for me to scrape up and get to the vet, but I doubt chest cavity worms would be in the fecal anyway. I took pictures of him, his weight, his cage, his feces, etc. He’s sitting on the plant in the pic because we just put him back from weighing him, otherwise he is always sitting on the floor. I also took pics of the lineatus and their runny feces. I know you got the majority of your Uro’s this past summer from Derek, so the statement that you have 700 of them and they haven’t been dropping like flies really doesn’t mean much. The guentheri were obviously
stressed from shipping, they’ve been rather lethargic since I got them, I’m sure bouncing around in bags with 60+ gram geckos in the same box didn’t help much. Any parasite they could have had from you could have easily taken over after a stressful event like that. I know $725 is a lot of money to ask to be refunded, but it’s an awful lot of money to ask me to lose. I’ve been disabled the past 6 years, that was several months of me saving from doing odd jobs while recovering from a major surgery, but I jumped at owning a species I never thought I’d get to have, it’s an awful large sum to ask me to write off too.
Guenther, taken today
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1772.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1774.jpg
Lineatus feces (in a screen cage for quarantine), taken today
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1798.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1793.jpg
Lineatus, taken today, the one still has a healing nose rub from shipping
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1791.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1788.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1785.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1784.jpg
Guenther quarantine cage, taken today (the carrot is in there for the crickets)
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1775.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1782.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1781.jpg
Guenther poop
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1779.jpg
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/...riks geckos/?action=view¤t=IMG_1778.jpg
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:51 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I have never heard of maggots eating anything alive either. I was just saying they look as if they were maggots and I personally have never seen any kind of parasite that even remotely looks like that. What baffles me is that they were coming out of its ear and were in its body cavity...
I still have not heard back from my vet that I always deal with. I will call him tomorrow to see if hes even in the office.
Unfortunately being out of my care for almost a month I can't take the male back. I have no place to put him either and it is snowing in town right now. I have never had any issue with any of my specimens and I currently keep over 700 Uroplatus.
I would be willing to refund you for the female or send you a replacement.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 10/25/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 2:06 PM
Hi Erik
I talked to my vet yesterday, he said they couldn’t be maggots if she was freshly dead, that there were some situations where he had found maggots or worms inside lizards, but it was after they had been dead for awhile, and usually on soil substrates. I sent him the videos and pictures, he was going to get back to me with any other information he had, but said most likely they were internal parasites. I also spoke to a couple of gecko breeders I respect, and showed them the videos and pictures as well. One said she most likely was stressed from shipping, and any internal parasites she had prior to shipping completely took over once she was stressed. Both breeders had never seen anything like that before, but they both thought they were internal parasites/worms. I’m rather uncomfortable keeping the male here, he’s well separated from my other animals, and seems to still be drinking and eating, I just dread what he might possibly have, and worry he
will have a similar fate as her. I would like to send him back to you, this week if at all possible. If you could please get back to me so we could work something out, I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:24 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Now that I can see the video those look more like maggots then any kind of parasite I have done research on or ever seen.
I did forward the video and picture links to a good friend who is a vet to see if he might have any idea. I will let you know asap as soon as I hear anything.
Did you happen to keep any of the worms?
Thanks Erik
--- On Sat, 10/22/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 4:37 PM
Sorry the video is so blurry, my cell phone and camera aren’t the greatest. There were about 10 worms trying to crawl out her throat, my guess is I saw her drinking in the shower about 5 mins before she passed, and I think maybe the worms were drowning? They were crawling up her throat, and there were also several crawling out her ears, but I was too freaked out to get a shot of that. You can see it in one of the still pics of her on her side though, there is a worm crawling out her ear. There were also several around her lungs in her chest cavity when I opened her up, but the majority were in the throat. It’s kind of hard to see the worms in the throat pic, the other two videos show single worms that were coming out of her chest, I had them crawling around on my gloves as well. She was still fat, and seemed fine other than she’s been rather lethargic since I got her, and she was having trouble with this shed. The boy seems to be a lot more active,
and he still seems ok. They were in quarantine away from everyone else in their modified sterilite, I had wanted to get a fecal before I put them in their final cage.
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z257/bonnielorraine22/guentheri necropsy/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofePM8kALk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiUilshEtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb3VSYMWNgI
From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:31 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Awesome! Great news.
I am at work right now but will email you everything once I get home.
Well right now all the pietschmanni, phantasticus, and ebenaui are on hold for a Zoo.. They are looking at their budget and getting back with me later today or tomorrow. So I might not have them available, but I do have a ton of phant and eben hatchlings being raised up..
Thanks Erik
--- On Wed, 10/19/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: "Erik Strait" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 11:14 AM
Hi Erik,
just wanted to let you know that the guentheri seem to be doing much better since I added the plant. They’re going to the bathroom, crickets are disappearing, and I keep finding them in different locations in the tank, so they seem to be moving around more now. I was just wondering on the genetics on them? I added them to my iHerp list, so if you could please give me any information you have on the parents it would be greatly appreciated. Any luck on selling the ebens? I saw you lowered the price. If you have them around awhile longer, I may be able to scrape together some more gecko money.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 5:30 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I would try to get them into a cage with more ventilation when you can, but it sounds just fine right now.
They defiantly are from a drier area but still need some misting.
Temps sound fine.
I feed them small 1/4"-3"8" crickets/roaches.
They defiantly are a more shy species compared to others. I don't normally stay up and watch them, however when I have they always tend to be more shy, also they are probably still settling in.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
there’s about a 12”x8” hole cut in the lid and filled in with screen. I haven’t been spraying them as much as the sikorae and lineatus, since I read they’re from a slightly drier area. Temps have been 78 in the day, and down to about 65 at night. We tried medium crickets at first, they ate two, but I put smalls in there last night, even though they’re larger than most of my medium cricket eating geckos, I was worried maybe they were intimidating them? I got some lateralis for them too, but they’re not up to feeding size yet. The reason I’m worried is they don’t seem to move much at night either. I usually sit in the living room with the lights out for a while at night, until about 1 am, and I can hear the sikorae hunting, and the lineatus hunting, but the guentheri stay hiding in the fake plants.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 2:31 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Good to hear about the lineatus.
They are nocturnal, so they wont be active durring the day. They are definatly one of the more laid back species and they seem to prefer branches and vines rather than walking on the sides of tanks.
Are they getting plenty of ventalation,? However a sterlite should be ok in the mean time, juts be sure that mold doesn't start to grow because of the high humidity and daily mistings. What are your temperatures? What size food items are you feeding?
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 8, 2011 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I just wanted to say the lineatus are doing great, eating well, and the one with the mouth rub has it scabbed over, but I’m a bit worried about the guentheri. They’re drinking, but don’t seem to move around much, and have only eaten two crickets in the past two days. I have them in a modified sterilite for now, with the lid cut out and screen glued in, paper towels on the bottom, and fake vines and thinner branches for them to walk on since people said they like the smaller twigs, but they hide all day and I don’t see them move around much. Is there anything I can do to make them happier?
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:11 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
That's weird. I didn't see anything on any of them when I packed them up. Just let me know how it looks when they settle in, they are super hardy though.
Ya, lineatus get big, but gorgeous. They are defiantly a favorite of mine with their black tongue. Just wait until you see them fully fired up at night. The stripes are insane!
Just let me know if you have any further questions. As always, Thank You for the business.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hey Erik,
I went to get them at 10:30 this morning, just finished showering and caging everybody (separately of course). They all look good, just a bit stressed, and one of the lineatus had a minor mouth abrasion, but it should heal up fine. The lineatus are huge!!! We’ve gotten them in at the store before, but never that big, very impressive animals I’ve never actually seen the Guenthers in person before, so cute. I’m naming them Ryobi and Makita for their little spade drill bit shaped tails. Thank you, as always you send great animals!
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:32 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Here is the tracking number: 795260646616.
You should get an email from FedEx also. I put both of your names on the box because I wasn't sure who was going to get it.
I put everyone in separate bags because the guentheri in deli cups didn't work in this size box. But I put them in bags all the time to ship them. I just wanted to let you know.
Please let me know when they arrive. Feel free to email or call. However I do have some early morning meetings I might be in but you can leave a voice mail. 303-905-1592.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
Weds morning delivery sounds good. If you could please have them held at the Fedex hub again for pick up that would be awesome.
My female finally passed 2 days ago, several hours before her vet visit to discuss surgery. She hung in there and fought it for a long time though so wasn’t very unexpected. Never really seen a mossy hang in there and fight to live before, just made it all the sadder to watch. We did the necropsy the other night and took pics, I posted everything here
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...us/59178-sikorae-necropsy-graphic-photos.html along with a description of what we found and what happened. So in the end, no blockage, just a bunch of eggs, two of which were rock hard, solid, and deformed.
Please let me know when you ship the geckos, I could use some cheering up this week.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 10:06 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Hopefully you received my other email. Please let me know.
How has your sikorae been?
Also for shipping just let me know what day you would like to receive them. I have quite a few shipments going out Tuesday for a Wednesday delivery this week. So that would be the easiest day for me to ship if you will be around Wednesday.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I hadn’t heard back on a shipping date yet, which is probably for the best. One of my female sikorae took a turn for the worse, she has an impaction from we’re guessing cricket or dubia parts, she’s been on paper towels this whole time and nothing is showing up on xray. The vet has tomorrow off, but said if she’s still around by Thurs he wants to try an enema and if that doesn’t work than surgery, but from the looks of things she won’t be around that long. Have you ever had anything like this happen? My friend has been trying to massage it out of her, but he said it’s now too large to fit out of her pelvis, he can push it down towards her vent, but it gets stuck. I’ve been doing showers, soaks, and mineral oil, all with no result.I’m at a complete loss on what to do, she’s my favorite gecko. Hopefully next week will be ok for you to ship, things shouldn’t feel as frantic and bleak by then.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 10:10 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I did get my shipping bags in for the larger Uroplatus. So I am free to ship whenever you are ready.
However upon checking the Uroplatus tonight, it seems the single female had some trouble shedding and dropped her tail with the shedding skin still on it. Im not sure what could have caused this. But I would rather not sell her until I know she is back in full health. That said, we have two options, I do have another lone female I could add in her place or we could do a refund.
Just let me know what you would prefer to do.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
I just went over my budget and it looks like I won’t be able to come up with much more than $200 for a pair of ebens, so I guess I will have to wait until next time you have some available. I just looked at our temps again, and this week is going to be warm until about Weds anyway, they keep saying that the next week will be cooler, and once it gets to be next week they change it to say “just kidding, it’s now going to be 85” sigh. Hopefully next week really is cooler.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Yes, I did get it however it was sent via Echeck so I would prefer to wait to ship until it clears.
What kind of price were you thinking for the ebenaui? Just let me know asap as I have 3 parties interested in buying everything I have left.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: Erik Strait <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hi Erik,
we sent you the payment on the lineatus yesterday, hopefully you get it soon. I was wondering if you might be able to do a discount for a pair of ebens? I had a couple pairs of phants 6 yrs ago, and have been wanting to get some of the smaller species again. I was supposed to get a pair of wc a back in August for $160, but unfortunately the wholesaler ran out before my friend could place his order. I’m rather low on funds atm, we went wayyyy above our gecko budget this month, but I figured I would ask anyways since you have quite a few of them available.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: Erik Strait
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:21 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy with a few new grants that we got at work and trying to figure everything out.
Anyhow, C46 consist of LTC pair. Based on their size upon import early this year I would guess they are about 1.5 years old. Only being placed together a few months ago I have not had any eggs, although she looks very fat right now. C43 was on the same import as C46.
Thanks Erik
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hey Erik,
just wanted to check back with you about the info for the lineatus.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:11 AM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I am already at work for the day, but I will get you the extra info on them a little later when I get home.
No deposit needed. I trust you two. Just let me know when you will have them paid off and I will just hold them for you..
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/13/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 12:59 AM
Hi Erik,
we just saw your lineatus pics, and are very interested in the pair C46 and the lone female C43, any extra info for these? Also, would you be able to take a deposit on them until Friday?(paycheck comes Thurs evening).
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:08 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Not a problem. I dont mind holding them until temperatures are adequate.
I did finally. Sorry it took so long. I still have lineatus pictures and a few more sikorae to put up. Here is the link. http://www.flickr.com/photos/67340260@N04/sets/
Thanks Erik
--- On Mon, 9/12/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 12, 2011, 9:51 PM
Hi Erik,
just wondering if you ever got pictures of the Eben’s up. Temps are still a bit spiky here, so probably will be a couple more weeks before it’s safe to ship the guentheri. Hit 86 here today, and says it will be warmer again tomorrow. Thanks for holding them for us.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:39 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I recieved the funds. Thank You.
Just let me know. If its hot I definatly prefer to just mark them sold for you and hold them until the weather allows for shipping. The animals safety is always #1.
I am adding the group #'s to the ebenaui photos now, so I will send you pictures and prices soon.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 9:36 PM
Hi Erik,
I just sent you the $775 for pair C223. Just because I’m a total sadist, and feel like torturing myself, if you already have pics of the ebenaui taken and available to send, and you still have some in a week or so, my bday is next week, so I may have some birthday money to scrape together for another pair, plus I can always sell more plants, or maybe a kidney heh. The weather this week is pretty hot, and I doubt you’re ready to ship out that soon anyway. Supposedly it’s going to be cooler next week and the week after.
Thank you so much
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:11 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Ya, #223 and #220 are both CB pairs.
The pair was priced at $800 (I forgot to mention that the CB pairs were $100 extra though) and shipping would be $50 for a total of $850. However due to my error how about I knock off $75 and we do $775? That way there is only an extra $25 charge instead of $100 for both animals being CB?
If you want we can do the $760 and the rest whenever you can. I dont mind shipping before you send the remainer if you wanted. Our last deal went just fine so I dont mind.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 8:27 PM
Hi Erik,
Justin just got home, and we both agree we really like the 223, the male’s coloring is gorgeous. I had $760 saved up, since I figured the shipping might get a bit high, I can try to scrape some extra together tonight though. I just sent Justin to the bank with the cash, just let me know what you would like for them, and I’ll work on coming up with the rest this evening.
Thanks,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 7:09 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Pair #222: Consists of a WC male from early this year and a CB F2 female born in late 2009. They have yielded a few clutches thus far. The WC male was paired with her to increase genetic diversity.
Pair #223: Consists of two CB animals. both born mid 2009. A few more clutches from these two since they have been together longer then the previous pair. I cool my animals 3-4 months out of the year so they get plenty of rest period.
I forgot to mention that pair #223 was $100 more because they were both CB. However since I forgot the mention that previously we can arrange something to suit us both if you wanted that pair.
I included shipping in the price of the sikorae because I was over run with them. I have sikorae everywhere! Where as these are far more rare. Shipping has been running around $70 and I will only charge $50 and I will cover the rest. I can ship multiple pairs for the same shipping cost if you interested in another guentheri pair or any other Uroplatus.
Thanks Erik
--- On Tue, 9/6/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 6, 2011, 7:40 PM
Hi Erik,
thanks for the pictures! I really like C222 and C223. Can I get some info on these two pairs to help me decide? Age, cb or ltc, breeding or nonproven, etc. Justin gets home in 20 mins, and I’ll be handing him my giant wad of cash from the reptile show to go deposit in the atm, so I can send you a paypal payment in an hour or so. What would the shipping be to 92804? Last time we ordered from you, you covered the shipping, so not sure what the cost was.
Thanks so much,
Bonnie
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 6:32 PM
To: Bonnie Person
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
Sorry about the delay. I have been backed up on work and didn't have time to upload photos. Here are 4 pairs that I have. I thought I had 5 left, but it is only these 4.
Thanks Erik
--- On Sun, 9/4/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 12:30 AM
Hi Erik,
sounds good. I'm doing really well at the NARBC show this weekend, I think that means I deserve a new pair of geckos heh. A question on cage size. Our gecko cage racks have shelves to fit either the 24"x18"x18" Exo Terras or the 24"x18"x24" Exo Terras, which size do you think the guentheri would prefer? I want to start setting up their tank asap so I have it ready whenever I get them (crossing my fingers you still have them left after I get home from the show tomorrow).
Thanks,
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Bonnie Person
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Uroplatus guentheri
Hello,
I will be taking pictures this weekend and sending them out to people who requested them. So I will send you some soon.
Thanks Erik
--- On Fri, 9/2/11, Bonnie Person <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Bonnie Person <[email protected]>
Subject: Uroplatus guentheri
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 12:56 PM
Hi Erik,
I just saw your ad on kingsnake for the guentheri, I was wondering if you had any additional information or pictures of the pairs? I would be very interested in getting one.
Thank you,
Bonnie & lt; /tr>
