BOI Grand Jury

[JColt]

Just my thought. Make all bad guy posts have to be revieved before it is posted. Have certain criteria that has to be included or it gets kicked back to op. If criteria is not done correctly it will not be posted.

Any and all who make nonsense replies in the Boi get three warnings.. After 3 warnings a month ban from viewing the Boi. No flaming, No "Do not sell or Do not buy from" posts, no - posting any thing that does not relate directly to the post.

 

[JColt]

Also Post title should not be allowed to be suggestive. Like JColt - Crook/Liar. User's name or Username with the correct icon selected.

 

[JudyC]

... Americans are lazy...they WON'T take the time to read the bad guy posts about someone. They just see the red and turn away. And what do young people hate to do because they were forced to all throughout school? READ!

So...we keep redefining how we go about our lives because SOME people are too lazy to do what needs to be done? Ever see the Disney movie WALL-E?

I'm sick and tired of people wanting to TURN DOWN our expectations of the world around us to meet some lowest-common-denominator. It's ridiculous.

I realize your post is about concern for the sellers who might be losing lazy customers...but quite frankly, I think that's bull anyhow. Those lazy people will burn themselves and learn their lesson and then come back and do it the right way. If they can't...then they're probably not that much value as a customer anyhow.

Also Post title should not be allowed to be suggestive. Like JColt - Crook/Liar. User's name or Username with the correct icon selected.

There's a million different ways it COULD be done....running the BOI, I mean. All of them have their pros and cons...none of them are perfect. All of them would be liked by some and hated by some.

 

[JColt]

There's a million different ways it COULD be done....running the BOI, I mean. All of them have their pros and cons...none of them are perfect. All of them would be liked by some and hated by some.

Yes many different ways. I feel some ways have more professional feel to it though. Problem is while 70% or so will make a decent post it is the other % and the responder's who cloud it up and make it a headache. The Boi to me should be professional. I would even forgo smilies. Again just my opinion and suggestion. I do not think I have all the answers or am I trying to tell webslave how things should be on his site. Just engaging the conversation.

 

[Lucille]

Again just my opinion and suggestion. I do not think I have all the answers

But, who knows, you might have some of them. This is a rare site, where suggestions (as long as they are courteous) are read and some even chosen to help the site.
I remember vaguely someone suggesting an easier way to comb the BOI when they were researching a seller, and I believe from that suggestion the new BOI button was born.

Not everyone will always agree with you when you post opinions, but that doesn't mean that your thoughts are not valued.
(I myself do not want anyone predigesting my thoughts on various situations posted here, I like having the freedom to think through and decide what is important to me, so a pre-BOI would not be something that would appeal to me personally).
But bringing your thoughts here for others to see takes some effort, and efforts like that help make this site what it is.

 

[the gecko geek]

Because this is just another instance of punishing the many for the mistakes of the few..
We're talking about the threads that one person gets hot headed over something small, then the accused gets hot headed over that, a small argument occurs between the two and they apologize publicly and/or privately and the accused still has the blemish of a pointless bad guy thread on their reputation.

Yes, those who read the whole thread will see the reality of the situation, but let's face it, not many people have the time to read an 8 page BOI thread all the way through. People just look through the classifieds, see an animal they like, click the BOI button and look for green checks and red x's.

Someone please tell me how that is fair to the person's reputation?!

And you know what I have noticed in the year of being a member on this site? It's always the same 50-100 people showing up in the BOI that actually follow up on the threads looking for solid evidence. There are how many members again? Last time I checked it was right around 59,000..

So what about the other 58,900 members that don't follow up pn the BOI threads? Those are the people that is the grand jury of fauna. The people that aren't reading, trying to get hard evidence, or doing anything but looking for checks and x's are the people that someone has to try and persuade they arent a bad guy just because of that red x they saw when they ran a search.

This is something that is wrong with the BOI. Shoot, its whats wrong with the government of this country for crying out loud..someone can break into your house, cut themselves on an open drawer, sue you, and win. Tell me how that's fair?



I'm all for being held responsible for your actions, that's how I was raised. But why do I have to be responsible for Joe Schmo's false accusation about me?

 

[the gecko geek]

I realize your post is about concern for the sellers who might be losing lazy customers...but quite frankly, I think that's bull anyhow. Those lazy people will burn themselves and learn their lesson and then come back and do it the right way. If they can't...then they're probably not that much value as a customer anyhow.

Or that person takes their bad experience and exposes it to the media in some way/shape/form and in turn just makes the reptile hobby look even more like a terrible place..

There are many different options that could be considered, and I realize that its very hard to run something like the BOI, I just get tired of coming across all these threads full of false accusations..

 

[Lucille]

I just get tired of coming across all these threads full of false accusations..

I get tired of that too Jordan, and feel sorry sometimes for people that get jerked around.

But more control, more layers of administration, is not always a good answer. Look at what happens when our government tries to rule by paying for studies, for committees, etc. Usually it ends up being an expensive corrupt mess and the original problem is never solved.

A surprising number of good guys who have been wronged jerk right back, and readers help them do it.

It isn't a perfect system but the proposed alternatives have their own serious problems.

 

[lauraleellbp]

IMO there's no ethical, reasonable, or desirable way to "police" common sense.

The BOI is a tool. Every tool in existence can be misused.

If someone is taking the time to do a BOI search and then doesn't bother to READ the threads they pull up with said search, then they're a poor researcher- pure and simple. There's no cure for that, and that's their own fault.

I suspect at least the majority of the 59,000 members here on Fauna have at least read ONE BOI thread during their time here, whether or not they posted. I, like most other people I know, don't actually post in the vast majority of the threads I read online. If you look at the number of views posted right next to each thread, you'll SEE that the majority of viewers don't post in threads.

 

[the gecko geek]

The entire government is pretty corrupt, but that's a different story..

One idea I had for the BOI that I have seen problems with arising is that no one notifies the person accused of the thread for a while..in that time some people form opinions and a couple of pages go by and they look bad and then come back on the 5th page of people bashing them and have all the proof to turn the story around...

So my idea is that a BOI thread title can only be posted about someone's username. Then, the system automatically notifies the person with that username that a BOI thread was started with their username in the title. Similar to the notifications for PM'S or replies to other threads.
This way both parties are involved from the beginning.

 

[WebSlave]

I sure wish I had a nickle for every time I have stated that staff here will NOT act as judges in matters brought before the BOI. That we will not try to make judgment calls on what evidence has been presented and therefore decide which threads or posts can remain, and which ones should be deleted. Who are we to judge which information might be of value to someone? Who are we to state that we can tell lies from the truth in ALL cases? Why would we want to presume that we know what is important to YOU?

Sorry, but that is just not going to happen as long as I run this site. I believe and expect that the truth will eventually come out. Sometimes, yes, it is buried deeply and the pot has to be stirred longer than some would like to bring it to the surface. But I believe it is best to let the pot be stirred long enough to potentially get results rather than us presuming we know when it has been stirred all that it needs to be. Many a thread has taken an unexpected turn that has born fruit for some people, regardless if the misgivings sensed during it's creation. We are not psychic, and cannot possibly know if or when that will take place in ANY thread created here. Yeah, when all of the cards do get thrown onto the table, there will be some jokers there, but that's just the way it has to be.

I believe everyone needs to take the time, and make the effort, to engage in business with people they have investigated to the best of their ability and make wise decisions based on as much KNOWLEDGE as they can muster. The absolute best way to get scammed is to be in a hurry to throw money at someone because the deal is too good to be true (but you're hoping you lucked out anyway) or someone tries to force you into rushing ahead with the deal and explain away why something about them just sets off alarms that you feel in your gut. "Act in haste, regret at leisure" is what my mom always used to tell me.

Trust me, you will quickly forget the rare deal that gets away because you were too cautious and wanted to be CERTAIN of your actions, but you will NEVER, EVER forget getting scammed because you just were not cautious enough. And instead of spending that time BEFORE you got scammed to read about the person who scammed you, you will be back here, in SPADES, reading and writing about him or her after the fact. So at which point would YOU rather spend that time?

Our intent here is to not get in the way of your being able to make wise decisions. In my opinion, implementing any sort of filter for ANY information provided to YOU goes a long step in the wrong direction with that in mind.

 

[WebSlave]

The entire government is pretty corrupt, but that's a different story..

One idea I had for the BOI that I have seen problems with arising is that no one notifies the person accused of the thread for a while..in that time some people form opinions and a couple of pages go by and they look bad and then come back on the 5th page of people bashing them and have all the proof to turn the story around...

So my idea is that a BOI thread title can only be posted about someone's username. Then, the system automatically notifies the person with that username that a BOI thread was started with their username in the title. Similar to the notifications for PM'S or replies to other threads.
This way both parties are involved from the beginning.

Sorry, but although your suggestions sound helpful, the devil will be in the details.

How would your first suggestion of REQUIRING only a username work? Discounting the fact that the topic may be about someone who is not a member here, how many people will KNOW what the user name is of anyone they wish to post about? And what happens when they ignore this rule? What do we do then? Edit the thread topic? I don't think so. To do so puts the editor at risk of being legally liable, then for the entire thread. They then become, legally, a co-author of that entire thread. Sorry, but that just is not going to happen. So the alternative is for staff here to watch over the BOI like hawks and delete any thread started that is not in compliance? Do you think that will work out very well?

Then the suggestion about automatically contacting the topic target of a thread. Again, how would that work? If you happen to have a programming background, then perhaps you will realize just how difficult something like that would be to implement programmatically. If you don't have a programming background, well I'll just leave it at "damned tough to do".

 

[the gecko geek]

So...we keep redefining how we go about our lives because SOME people are too lazy to do what needs to be done? Ever see the Disney movie WALL-E?

I'm sick and tired of people wanting to TURN DOWN our expectations of the world around us to meet some lowest-common-denominator. It's ridiculous.

I realize your post is about concern for the sellers who might be losing lazy customers...but quite frankly, I think that's bull anyhow. Those lazy people will burn themselves and learn their lesson and then come back and do it the right way. If they can't...then they're probably not that much value as a customer anyhow.



There's a million different ways it COULD be done....running the BOI, I mean. All of them have their pros and cons...none of them are perfect. All of them would be liked by some and hated by some.

Sorry, but although your suggestions sound helpful, the devil will be in the details.

How would your first suggestion of REQUIRING only a username work? Discounting the fact that the topic may be about someone who is not a member here, how many people will KNOW what the user name is of anyone they wish to post about? And what happens when they ignore this rule? What do we do then? Edit the thread topic? I don't think so. To do so puts the editor at risk of being legally liable, then for the entire thread. They then become, legally, a co-author of that entire thread. Sorry, but that just is not going to happen. So the alternative is for staff here to watch over the BOI like hawks and delete any thread started that is not in compliance? Do you think that will work out very well?

Then the suggestion about automatically contacting the topic target of a thread. Again, how would that work? If you happen to have a programming background, then perhaps you will realize just how difficult something like that would be to implement programmatically. If you don't have a programming background, well I'll just leave it at "damned tough to do".

So now you are saying that two programs that you already have on the site in working condition would not work in the BOI? 9 times out of 10 a BOI thread is started with a title of a username and/or the persons full name...so if the system works to where if there is no title you can't post the thread, how much harder would it be to get it to scan for full names or usernames it already recognizes? If no full name or username is entered in the title bar, no post.

And how in the world are you gonna try and explain to us that it is impossible to send out notifications that already exist for PM's and replies to any old thread, but instead of saying you have a new PM, saying "A BOI thread was started with your username/name, your presence is requested here." And then gives a link to the thread.

It can't be that much harder than getting them out for PM's...can it? It's pretty much the same thing, just sending out a different message in the notification..

 

[the gecko geek]

Sorry for the quote with JudyC in that last post..not sure how it got there..lol isn't really relevant to the post.

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

o0o maybe we can have like, a cute little internet jail too.

 

[KelliH]

o0o maybe we can have like, a cute little internet jail too.

lol

 

[JudyC]

So now you are saying that two programs that you already have on the site in working condition would not work in the BOI? 9 times out of 10 a BOI thread is started with a title of a username and/or the persons full name...so if the system works to where if there is no title you can't post the thread, how much harder would it be to get it to scan for full names or usernames it already recognizes? If no full name or username is entered in the title bar, no post.

And how in the world are you gonna try and explain to us that it is impossible to send out notifications that already exist for PM's and replies to any old thread, but instead of saying you have a new PM, saying "A BOI thread was started with your username/name, your presence is requested here." And then gives a link to the thread.

It can't be that much harder than getting them out for PM's...can it? It's pretty much the same thing, just sending out a different message in the notification..

(I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'll go ahead and answer 'cause I feel like it. )

The notification systems for subscribed threads and PMs are completely different than what you are wishing to have done with BOI threads.

Everything you do here at the site has your "fingerprint" on it, so to speak. That print is tied to your username, and that username is tied to whatever info you have in your profile, including your e-mail addy. If you "pick up the glass" your fingerprint will be on it.

You can't pick up a glass and write Joe Blow's name on it, and then have that glass suddenly connected to him by his fingerprint, because he never touched it.

And, as Rich mentioned...not everyone who gets BOI threads created about them actually have user names here. Not everyone who creates a BOI thread knows the person's user name (if they even have one). And user names are frequently mistyped even when they are used.

It really is rare that very much time goes by between a BOI thread being created and the person notified. It's usually one of the first things mentioned in the thread. "Did you notify the person involved?" And more often than not, others participating in the thread take it upon themselves to give heads up.

Anyhow...what sounds like a very simple concept in your head is NOT at all simple when it comes to coding vBulletin based forums. They just don't work that way. Sorry.

 

[WebSlave]

Anyhow...what sounds like a very simple concept in your head is NOT at all simple when it comes to coding vBulletin based forums. They just don't work that way. Sorry.

Amen.... In this point and click society we have become, I guess everyone now believes that any programming problem can be solved with merely a point and click solution. The REALLY complicated cases may take as many as THREE clicks.....

And for the record, gecko geek, those aren't PROGRAMS running, those are my moderators who are MANUALLY scanning threads in the BOI, and MANUALLY locking threads that do not comply with the rules. To get a program to be able to tell that any string of text included in the topic line does or does not contain any possible current or future member name within it (after all, I don't think it would be a very smart move to limit the BOI to having threads solely about ONLY current members here) is a highly unlikely task to undertake. To further ask of the program to be able to scour the internet to try to match up ANY name entered into that topic line and then also find legitimate contact information to initiate contact with that person is also a VERY daunting task. Sure, if I threw $50K at my programmer, maybe he could come up with something that comes close to the ideal of half of the people here, but quite frankly, I don't think the slim return on that big investment will be worth it. Not to mention that the code would probably be SO huge and processor/I/O intensive that it would choke my server, well, sorry, but no, I don't believe this is going to be on the table here.

Seriously, if you haven't tried programming, give it a whirl sometimes. It's really not as easy as you might think.