Tiny turtle causes taxiing plane to return to gate

[Cp3_Pythons]

Here's the thread to the article

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Tiny-turtle-causes-taxiing-apf-1122992999.html?x=0

 

[LauraB]

1) I can't even believe AirTran turned the flight around and kicked them off for a little 2" RES!

2) I can't even believe they threw that little turtle in the trash!

Does no one have any common sense any more?

 

[AbsoluteApril]

insane!! at least "the ramp supervisor had rescued the turtle from the trash "out of his own compassion"" and the girl got it back.

(I thought turtles under 4" couldn't be sold as pets? Maybe that's a state specific law?)

 

[garweft]

1) I can't even believe AirTran turned the flight around and kicked them off for a little 2" RES!

2) I can't even believe they threw that little turtle in the trash!

Does no one have any common sense any more?

I believe they kicked them off, I can't believe someone would throw a living animal in the trash. They should not have gotten the turtle back. If they didn't care enough not to throw it away they should not have been given it back by the person who actually rescued it.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

Does no one have any common sense any more?

Some people do It's Just..... not to many people these days use their common sense

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I believe they kicked them off, I can't believe someone would throw a living animal in the trash. They should not have gotten the turtle back. If they didn't care enough not to throw it away they should not have been given it back by the person who actually rescued it.

I dont think they should have gotten the RES sback either. I was reading the article and was like when they said they threw it away.

Throwing Away a Live animal Wouldnt that Fall under some sort of Animal Cruelty or Neglect?

"I asked, 'What do you mean get rid of it?' and they said throw it away," she said. "I was very sad, and I felt bad for my littlest sister because it was her first pet and she was planning to take care of it herself."

While the sisters say they were told to put the animal in the trash, AirTran says they chose that themselves, despite an offer to fly later at no extra charge.


Yup sounds Like that RES was and is going to be taken real good care of.

From this Website
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusgast16_12_4.htm
I found..

§ 16-12-4. Cruelty to animals
(a) As used in this Code section, the term:

(1) "Animal" shall not include any fish nor shall such term include any pest that might be exterminated or removed from a business, residence, or other structure.


SO I guess a Reptile isn't an animal??

 

[LauraB]

(I thought turtles under 4" couldn't be sold as pets? Maybe that's a state specific law?)

You are correct, April ... though it isn't a state-specific law, it's a Federal regulation, enacted in 2005.
The girls shouldn't even have that little RES to begin with - let alone as a "first pet".
(Hate to be a little kid's killjoy, but yes, Virginia, that cute little turtle could grow to a foot in length and need REAL specialized care)

What happens to it when it outgrows that goldfish bowl or stupid tiny plastic "turtle lagoon"? Bummer.

Federal statute: http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/05-16142.pdf

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

You are correct, April ... though it isn't a state-specific law, it's a Federal regulation, enacted in 2005.
The girls shouldn't even have that little RES to begin with - let alone as a "first pet".
(Hate to be a little kid's killjoy, but yes, Virginia, that cute little turtle could grow to a foot in length and need REAL specialized care)

What happens to it when it outgrows that goldfish bowl or stupid tiny plastic "turtle lagoon"? Bummer.

Federal statute: http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98fr/05-16142.pdf

So... Since its a federal Regulation Don't all States have to follow it??
If so someone should be asking where they bought the RES at...
You Ask...
What happens to it when it outgrows that goldfish bowl or stupid tiny plastic "turtle lagoon"?
Thats easy They already threw it away once... My guess would be... You guessed it... Out the back door to play in the yard while we "accidently" forget we stuck you there

 

[LauraB]

So... Since its a federal Regulation Don't all States have to follow it??

One would think yes... hell, anyone can snag a hatchling and sell it, though.

What happens to it when it outgrows that goldfish bowl or stupid tiny plastic "turtle lagoon"?
Thats easy They already threw it away once... My guess would be... You guessed it... Out the back door to play in the yard while we "accidently" forget we stuck you there

Exactly! Or just maybe it's lucky enough to go to a rescuer when it gets too large ... I currently have 5 LT rescues. My oldest rescue, a sweet old male musk, passed away a couple years ago after I had it for 14-15 years, and it was an adult when I got it.
The others all range from 3 to 7-9 years in my care just because people thought their cute little turtles would not grow larger & actually require care or because they just lost interest in them.

Just pss'es me off - okay, off my soapbox now

 

[Wraith]

So... Since its a federal Regulation Don't all States have to follow it??

That PDF link posted earlier in the thread was only an update to inform of the transition of regulatory responsibility/administration to another organization. It was not an update to the existing laws concerning the sale of undersized turtles itself.

Anyways, not all states keep up with current federal regulations even when there are real changes. However, generally speaking, that is no excuse for those children to have been able to purchase the baby turtle as a pet in the first place. The sale or commercial distribution of turtles under 4 inches for use as PETS in this country has been banned for many many years - it is nothing new! There have also always been EXCEPTIONS listed in the regulation that still allow for undersized turtles to be sold and some ingenious people have found a few ways to possibly skirt around those regulations.

it is exception #2 that comes into play when dealing with most of the loopholes...

(2) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs not in connection with a business.

private turtle fanciers generally have been allowed to trade stock between themselves because no "business" sale was made.

however, some folks are shady enough to offer "free turtle" with purchase of a habitat.. since the turtle itself was not commercially sold it could possibly be seen as a legal loophole. Or the turtle could be "adopted for free", but you just "pay shipping" (with the shipping probably jacked up higher than it really would be to cover the hidden cost of the turtle) ..again.. since the turtle itself wasn't specifically stated as being for sale it could be seen as a possible legal loophole.

Anyone who tries to sell an undersized turtle and have you sign a document saying that you the purchaser are buying it for bona research/educational purposes ...those sellers should be avoided at all costs... a child raising a turtle at home for the "educational experience" is NOT bona fide no matter how you look at it.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 21, Volume 8]
[Revised as of April 1, 2009]
[CITE: 21CFR1240.62]
See Related Information on 1240.62 in CDRH databases



TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER L--REGULATIONS UNDER CERTAIN OTHER ACTS ADMINISTERED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION

PART 1240 -- CONTROL OF COMMUNICABLE DISEASES

Subpart D--Specific Administrative Decisions Regarding Interstate Shipments
Sec. 1240.62 Turtles intrastate and interstate requirements.

(a)Definition. As used in this section the term "turtles" includes all animals commonly known as turtles, tortoises, terrapins, and all other animals of the order Testudinata, class Reptilia, except marine species (families Dermachelidae and Chelonidae).

(b)Sales; general prohibition. Except as otherwise provided in this section, viable turtle eggs and live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches shall not be sold, held for sale, or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution.

(c)Destruction of turtles or turtle eggs; criminal penalties. (1) Any viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches which are held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution shall be subject to destruction in a humane manner by or under the supervision of an officer or employee of the Food and Drug Administration in accordance with the following procedures:

(i) Any District Office of the Food and Drug Administration, upon detecting viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches which are held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution, shall serve upon the person in whose possession such turtles or turtle eggs are found a written demand that such turtles or turtle eggs be destroyed in a humane manner under the supervision of said District Office, within 10 working days from the date of promulgation of the demand. The demand shall recite with particularity the facts which justify the demand. After service of the demand, the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs shall not sell, distribute, or otherwise dispose of any of the turtles or turtle eggs except to destroy them under the supervision of the District Office, unless and until the Director of the Center for Veterinary Medicine withdraws the demand for destruction after an appeal pursuant to paragraph (c)(1)(ii) of this section.

(ii) The person on whom the demand for destruction is served may either comply with the demand or, within 10 working days from the date of its promulgation, appeal the demand for destruction to the Director of the Center for Veterinary Medicine, Food and Drug Administration, 7519 Standish Pl., Rockville, MD 20855. The demand for destruction may also be appealed within the same period of 10 working days by any other person having a pecuniary interest in such turtles or turtle eggs. In the event of such an appeal, the Center Director shall provide an opportunity for hearing by written notice to the appellant(s) specifying a time and place for the hearing, to be held within 14 days from the date of the notice but not within less than 7 days unless by agreement with the appellant(s).

(iii) Appearance by any appellant at the hearing may be by mail or in person, with or without counsel. The hearing shall be conducted by the Center Director or his designee, and a written summary of the proceedings shall be prepared by the person presiding. Any appellant shall have the right to hear and to question the evidence on which the demand for destruction is based, including the right to cross-examine witnesses, and he may present oral or written evidence in response to the demand.

(iv) If, based on the evidence presented at the hearing, the Center Director finds that the turtles or turtle eggs were held for sale or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution in violation of this section, he shall affirm the demand that they be destroyed under the supervision of an officer or employee of the Food and Drug Administration; otherwise, the Center Director shall issue a written notice that the prior demand by the District Office is withdrawn. If the Center Director affirms the demand for destruction he shall order that the destruction be accomplished in a humane manner within 10 working days from the date of the promulgation of his decision. The Center Director's decision shall be accompanied by a statement of the reasons for the decision. The decision of the Center Director shall constitute final agency action, reviewable in the courts.

(v) If there is no appeal to the Director of the Center for Veterinary Medicine from the demand by the Food and Drug Administration District Office and the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs fails to destroy them within 10 working days, or if the demand is affirmed by the Director of the Center for Veterinary Medicine after an appeal and the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs fails to destroy them within 10 working days, the District Office shall designate an officer or employee to destroy the turtles or turtle eggs. It shall be unlawful to prevent or to attempt to prevent such destruction of turtles or turtle eggs by the officer or employee designated by the District Office. Such destruction will be stayed if so ordered by a court pursuant to an action for review in the courts as provided in paragraph (c)(1)(iv) of this section.

(2) Any person who violates any provision of this section, including but not limited to any person who sells, offers for sale, or offers for any other type of commercial or public distribution viable turtle eggs or live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches, or who refuses to comply with a valid final demand for destruction of turtles or turtle eggs (either an unappealed demand by an FDA District Office or a demand which has been affirmed by the Director of the Center for Veterinary Medicine pursuant to appeal), or who fails to comply with the requirement in such a demand that the manner of destruction be humane, shall be subject to a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or both, for each violation, in accordance with section 368 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 271).

(d)Exceptions. The provisions of this section are not applicable to:

(1) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets.

(2) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs not in connection with a business.

(3) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs intended for export only, provided that the outside of the shipping package is conspicuously labeled "For Export Only."

(4) Marine turtles excluded from this regulation under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section and eggs of such turtles.

(e)Petitions. The Commissioner of Food and Drugs, either on his own initiative or on behalf of any interested person who has submitted a petition, may publish a proposal to amend this regulation. Any such petition shall include an adequate factual basis to support the petition, and will be published for comment if it contains reasonable grounds for the proposed regulation. A petition requesting such a regulation, which would amend this regulation, shall be submitted to the Division of Dockets Management, Food and Drug Administration, 5630 Fishers Lane, rm. 1061, Rockville, MD 20852.

[40 FR 22545, May 23, 1975, as amended at 46 FR 8461, Jan. 27, 1981; 48 FR 11431, Mar. 18, 1983; 54 FR 24900, June 12, 1989; 59 FR 14366, Mar. 28, 1994; 66 FR 56035, Nov. 6, 2001; 70 FR 48073, Aug. 18, 2005]