• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

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    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
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Opinion should we feel bad that we keep animals under captivity?

V675210

V675210

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Hello ,

I wanted to get some opinions on what brother in law and sister in law mentioned to me that did not sit well with me . That animals should not be kept under captivity they should be in the wild. I strongly agree that if u have have the resources and knowledge to keep (of course selected animals ) you can keep and maintain those animals in longer life time than them being on the wild . I hate when people say you should not keep animals in cage . Please let me know if I’m the only that feels that way
 
I agree with you Luis. Usually people that say things like that are not animal people or just don't like animals in general.
 
An argument could be made that humans should not hold other animals captive. If it were to be a consistent argument (which is the only kind worth listening to), it would entail:

-- not keeping any pets (exotics, dogs, cats, fish),

-- not eating any meat, fish, eggs, dairy products or honey,

--not wearing any animal products such as wool or leather,

-- not drinking wine (mostly clarified with products from animals who were held captive before being killed),

-- not drinking any beer (which is most of them) that uses animal-derived fining agents, lactose or honey,

-- not holding animals captive by living in towns or cities that contribute to severe habitat fragmentation,

-- not using the public roads or contributing to them by paying taxes, as roads hold animals captive by severely fragmenting habitat (on pain of death for crossing those boundaries),

--not eating USDA organically grown food or using organically grown fibers (which are fertilized using the waste from captive animals), or eating any food or using any fibers that are grown with the use of animal waste fertilizer (which is most grains and some cotton, at least).

So far, I've never met anyone, nor even heard of anyone, who sincerely advances this argument. Your family members may be the first, but likely they simply don't understand what they're saying.
 
One point to be considered in such arguments is that animals in the wild rarely, if ever, die from old age. Something else gets them first as a meal.
 
I have struggled with this question in my desire to keep snakes that are native where I live (and there is no regular source of captive-bred ones).

The problem here is that wild snakes are sometimes offered for sale by local people who have caught them out in the forest. There are very few predators of the adult snake here, so the main danger to them is from people, many of whom would kill them on sight.

The cons are:
If I buy them, I am directly encouraging the sellers to go back into the forest and catch more, reducing the wild population.
I do not like the general concept of taking animals that roam freely and putting them in a cage for my own amusement.
Although I try to take good care of my snakes, there are other people keeping them with very limited knowledge and care, and the majority die prematurely in captivity.

The pros are:
In good hands they can live a longer life than they may do in the wild.
By taking part in public demonstrations of handling and care we can reduce the fear of snakes and hopefully reduce the amount that are killed by people.

So far my compromise has been only to take snakes that were either long-term captives looking for a new home, or those born unexpectedly in captivity. I have never paid for, or sold, a snake.

I've had mine now for 15 years and we don't know their exact lifespan, but I have been wondering what I'd do if/when they eventually die. I hope that I would wait and see if I could find others needing homes, but that doesn't come up every day.

My principles say not to buy a recently caught captive for the reasons above - and I have, in the past, released snakes caught and brought in by concerned people who came across them accidentally.

So in general, I would agree with your brother and sister in law and say that it's not great to take wild animals and cage them. But the temptation would be very strong if I was faced with no other way... :shrug01:
 
I agree some animals can’t be keep in captivity but when they are under the care of someone with knowledge and love towards that animals they live longer and actually we can take care of any diseases. I just wish people especially my family ��were a bit more open minded and don’t judge people or say animals are not taken well under captivity.
 
If certain species were not kept in captivity then they would have gone extinct by now. As habitat is destroyed for development or farming, maintaining a captive population of many species will become more critical if they are to survive.
 
Not drink beer?! That is complete insanity! Besides, very, very few beers (maybe 1%) actually use any lactose or honey. I should know, I've been brewing for over a decade. Not that many follow it anymore, but German beer purity law even forbids the use of anything other than water, hops, barley and yeast! No animals other than myself have ever been harmed in the brewing of my beers :)

And while I agree with the post above that some species are saved from extinction by captive breeding, let's not conflate conservation efforts with the pet trade and exotic animal keeping hobby, which rarely ever overlap. Keeping animals is enjoyable to some and if you provide your animals with quality care I personally see no need to feel guilty about it, even if some folks disagree with the practice. We are never ALL going to agree on many, many issues. Do what you feel is right and don't let anyone guilt you!
 
SnakeSmithS said:
Not drink beer?! That is complete insanity!
Click to expand...

Yep, I was trying to make the case that the claim is insane ("reductio ad absurdum"). Sorry about the trigger, though -- that was kind of a dirty trick I pulled. ;)

Fining agents are used in most beers, though (although likely not in some, like New England IPAs that are getting pretty popular), and I don't know that a person could easily figure out if gelatin or isinglass was used, or some synthetic alternative. I used to brew, and I never worried about clarity, so I didn't use them. I agree, of course, about honey and lactose, but I don't think most people who drink a milk stout think "hey, an animal suffered for this".

I agree with much of what has been said here, especially about the dilemma of keeping WC animals. I'm really happy that I'm part of a hobby where so many people are concerned with doing this as responsibly as possible. I sure wouldn't agree with people who (and I've encountered a couple) claim that if I they bought some animal they can do with it as I please and don't anybody tell them how to do it. But, the blanket statement that animals shouldn't be kept in captivity is equally indefensible.
 
There are plenty of VERY good reasons (we are all familiar with) to avoid taking and keeping animals from the wild. There are no legitimate reasons I can think of to not keep captive bred and born animals ...but I respect those who choose not to do so as long as they don't criticize me for doing so or try to infringe on my rights to do so.

I always use Irish Moss if I'm concerned about clarity, which is rare :)
 
V675210 said:
or say animals are not taken well under captivity.
Click to expand...
Some animals in captivity are abused and neglected. That there are some who do not step up to their responsibilities is not a reason to judge the many who go out of their way to provide good habitats, good food, vet care, etc.

It IS a reason to judge the abusers and if you can, take whatever kind of action is available to get severely abused animals to a safer place.
 
It’s true including all reptiles they were meant to be free living in the wild. It’s even terrible and should be a crime to sell wild caught animals they was born free where god meant them to be I’m all for captive bred animals even though remember they are meant to live free in the wild unfortunately. Humans only see a dollar sign. To them it’s all about making money so they put the animal in a so called jail after they was. Captured. From there wild places living free so this is the truth. This is why captive bred is someways better
 
Good point Lucille. I suppose I always just assume everyone loves their pets as much as I do, and I forget sometimes that there are people who don't take good care of their animals :(. If he** actually existed, surely there would be a special place there for animal abusers.
 
Jeesereptile said:
It’s true including all reptiles they were meant to be free living in the wild. It’s even terrible and should be a crime to sell wild caught animals they was born free where god meant them to be I’m all for captive bred animals even though remember they are meant to live free in the wild unfortunately. Humans only see a dollar sign. To them it’s all about making money so they put the animal in a so called jail after they was. Captured. From there wild places living free so this is the truth. This is why captive bred is someways better
Click to expand...

I agree with the last sentence, but a lot of the rest isn't true.

“Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1.

"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." Genesis 9.

"For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind" James 3.

Hell, He even gave all of the animals to Noah, for a time, just because Noah was righteous -- bag limit of a pair each, seven pair each of the "clean" animals. And Noah didn't follow AZA care guidelines, not even close. ;)
 
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