thereptileroom = cheat of the month

[Gary O]

I also think this is getting a bit off topic. Anyone is free to PM me or contact me to discuss this.

Thanks everyone.

 

[WebSlave]

I would like to point out that the internet is an awfully big place, yet the paths to get to any part of it are extremely short. Everyone who sets up a website can run it however they choose to do so, within the limits of the law. If some website offers you something there that you want, then by all means, go there to get it. If any part of any site is not to your liking, then you can just use the parts of it that do meet your approval, or else just don't go there at all. I have been beat up many times over this simple fact when someone wants to deepfry my butt because of what my goals are for this site and I point out to them that they don't HAVE to stay here. It is NOT trying to chase anyone away at all. It is simply pointing out something that really should be obvious to nearly everyone.

Gary has found, just as I have, that goals will change and plans will need to be modified, often on the fly, to try to meet ever changing needs and requirements that come down the pike. Trying to please everyone is impossible to do. Even coming up with a solution to please a majority (much less catch their attention) is extremely difficult. Most people will not indicate what they want until you have expended time, money and effort to make it something they DON'T want. Ninety percent of your headaches will be caused by less then one percent of what you have on your website. And when you try to fix that one percent, it only increases the headaches as one fixed problem generates two more problems .......

Only someone who has never done this sort of thing could every think it is a simple task to do.

Now, that being said, I would just like to intervene at this time to remind everyone that the forum this thread is posted on is a FEEDBACK forum for FAUNATOPSITES issues. It is not a forum intended to be used to discuss policies and procedures of any site that happens to be on the FAUNATOPSITES listing. If anyone does wish to discuss some other website, then there is one set up on this site just for such a purpose. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=547

 

[bcfos]

Sorry about that Rich.. You know I am the "off topic" king at times..

 

[WebSlave]

No worries. It just appeared that this thread was edging towards going out of control.

 

[nicolai]

Everyones got to remember that one site is never going to cover all the bases and be active all the time. This is why we all see each other at other forums all the time. I am a member here as well as TRR and TSE and a few others and everyone has something to offer reptile enthusiasts in one way or another. I say "the more the Merrier!!!". Every site has its trolls and as long as they get weeded out the rest of us can enjoy each others company and maybe even have a little fun now and then.

 

[crazycorn]

Of course everyone knows I like to get my opinions on topics that matter to me so here it goes. I find these little facts funny myself:
Join Date: 02-03-2006
Total Posts: 4 (4 posts per day) <All in this thread
Where did you hear about FaunaClassifieds?:
trr bad mouthing this site. I figured if trr hated you , you must be great. Hmm guessing a site is great only by the bad mouthing of others if there was any, sounds like a rash and infalmed devision to me, just an axe to grind?
Full Name: TJR < What can't sign your name so we know who you are?

perfectly said. i couldn't agree more.

Funny louise, you used to love TRR until had majorly differing opinion with someone and went over the line, atleast that is what I saw. What about all those deleted posts due to verbal abuse and cussing? You were even a mod! Gotta love holding a bias....

 

[crazycorn]

I agree with everything said in thread, or atleast most of it. You won't find a more stand up guy then Gray he is very willing to listen and help if a problem should occur. TRR is there, use it if you like or leave if you don't, simply put. Why grind an axe over a differing OPINION. JMO though.

 

[coyote]

What causes me concern is that there will be people who will only read this thread title and never go past it to read what has been posted. Their opinion will be set aftter having only read the title. That's lousy.

 

[WebSlave]

What causes me concern is that there will be people who will only read this thread title and never go past it to read what has been posted. Their opinion will be set aftter having only read the title. That's lousy.

Sorry, but I disagree. From what I have seen, most people love to see a train wreck, so they WILL read the entire thread, hoping to see "blood and guts" spilled. Or they will read up to the point, at least, where they realize that it isn't a train wreck after all. Take a look at the BOI and the number of views "bad guy" threads get when compared to "good guy" threads.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I think that your point is valid Marjee.

It is however, the scenario that occurs often in the BOI, and I believe one of the root reasons for Rich deciding to raise the level of accountability there, with paid membership, full name, and enforced rules. The BOI is littered with "bad guy" posts where you sometimes have to read 2-5 pages onto it to find out that the "bad guy" is a "good guy" and that the thread starter might be a little less honorable. I made my case earlier that if the thread starter's issue involves a question of integrity or character, regardless of the rest of the topic, that should be the trip-wire to require it to be a BOI thread. Its an inexact science, and there will always be gray areas, as Rich mentioned. Having been the target of a more than one "bad guy" BOI thread under the old standards (I was vindicated after several pages, IMHO), and I believe speaking for all who have been the subject of questionable threads, while we wish such threads never started, we at least want it in the BOI so as to bring the highest level of accountability afforded by this site.

I think that Rich's point:

Sorry, but I disagree. From what I have seen, most people love to see a train wreck, so they WILL read the entire thread, hoping to see "blood and guts" spilled. Or they will read up to the point, at least, where they realize that it isn't a train wreck after all. Take a look at the BOI and the number of views "bad guy" threads get when compared to "good guy" threads.

..... cannot be argued. It is certainly consistent with the reasons some sites allow a wide open "War Room", or the old BOI. The "new BOI" has its advantages, as even a train wreck can get too ugly, and turn into what we used to call in the service an "abortion". I am going to add a concern about Rich's view that I think always deserves consideration, and which gets back to your view Marjee. I agree with Rich that in an active "train-wreck" thread, virtually all following it will be aware of the twists and turns it takes, as it is entertaining reading, and readers will stayed "glued to their sets". The recent thread started by "Critical Bill" which led to his downfall is a perfect example of a train-wreck that changed directions, but stayed a train-wreck, and held the audience long enough to see that the initial post was not quite fair. But if someone comes here to do a search on someone who was the topic of several bad-guy threads that ended up with the tables turned on the thread starter, I do not take it for granted that they will read far enough to find the whole picture, if a good rebuttal was made to the initial post, but is on page 3 (or post 20, etc). I accept that as the nature of the BOI, and will be the first to acknowledge that the "new BOI" addresses the problem of the unsubstantiated and malicious attacks to the extent that a measure of control can be applied. I don't know if character attacks flare up much back in some of the other forums here, but would hope that if they do, they would be scrutinized as a BOI thread. While most of the rules of conduct for the BOI could be applied, the accountability inherent with a being a paid member would not govern the posts of non-paid members who could still make a malicious attack with relative impugnity. I think we have to just trust Rich and the Mod's when those occasions arise.

 

[evil]

Funny louise, you used to love TRR until had majorly differing opinion with someone and went over the line, atleast that is what I saw. What about all those deleted posts due to verbal abuse and cussing? You were even a mod! Gotta love holding a bias....

i use to love my X husband too. and as for deleted posts i dont know what you mean???

 

[BufoToxin]

continued.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75357

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, I know that you justified the presence of this thread here when you said the following:


I am still a little bit confused (and had posted the same verbage) at your conclusion, as while I fully understand the concept of "issues", I also thought that the characterization with the "thumbs-down" etc made it a BOI issue, which may have been a bad assumption on my part. You mention "many gray areas", and I agree, and also realize that they are inevitable. I do not take umbrage with your decision here, though, as the word "any" can end all debate on this thread about suitability.

I believe the root of my confusion is not this thread, but was brought to light by it. To refresh the reader, here's the rule that I referenced in an earlier post:



My question is: What is a BOI type of thread? Not as the debate applies to this thread, as you explained that. I have reread the rules for posting on the BOI twice today. While there is much dialogue there about the uses and values to be had in the BOI as a source, rules of conduct, penalties, etc., I truly saw no definition or rule for what is and is not BOI content, and which would then be used as a gauge for imposing the above penalty. Once a thread is identified as having broken this rule, the penalty includes "Such instances will have the threads deleted as soon as they are located ..." There are also several characterizations of the seriousness of BOI posts, signatures, etc, to include this one which I like:


I don't know if you see it as a problem. If you do, my recommendation would that any issue which raises a question of integrity about any entity or business, ie good guy, bad guy, need info, deal gone bad, bad ethics, etc, be required to be a BOI thread. This could be with regards to animals, dry-goods, services, husbandry ethics, etc. Some might question the need to require "good guy" posts to be on the BOI, for if a "good guy" post stays all good, then there is no foul. But as mentioned by another post in this thread, they often attract bad comments.

I believe that many would agree with me. I think its important because as is alluded to in the above quote, the BOI requires ID, and this would be the forum for accusations, and anonymity is not allowed there. Even more importantly, any poster there is vested for at least $10, and therefore also has more incentive to not make baseless accusations or characterizations, and also to play by the rules. Basically, I am para-phrasing your reasons listed in the rules for going to a fee and requiring full name ID. In the big scheme of things, all of this is fairly minor, and may not be worth addressing anytime soon, if at all. This thread did however, raise the context for it. If my concerns are answered in the site, and I just missed them, than please redirect me, and accept my apologies. I am not getting any sharper with age!

Sorry about the delay in addressing this. It covers a lot of ground, and much of it I still don't have time to cover but feel it warrants at least a short answer.

Yes, I fully realized that locking down the BOI could have been the equivalent of trying to strangle a balloon. Squeezing one area just makes it pop out bigger in another, with nothing accomplished except wasted energy and time. But in a nut shell, a BOI type of thread is one that is targeted towards a business or person engaging in business, and the issue at hand is concerning BUSINESS. Posting a thread about someone not liking another individual because of personal reasons (as long as not running afoul of the stipulations concerning how conversations will be conducted on this site) is NOT a BOI type of thread. Nor is one concerning another website, when there is no issue involving the trading of services or money. Now when a person might discuss a product, be it a live animal, something they broker or act as a reseller, or something they manufacture themselves, then it gets to be more of a gray area. Especially when the product is something that is manufactured by a person or company, and the adjectives used to describe such a product may very well be a reflection on the company or business, rather then the actual product itself (which in some cases, may be inseparable). This definition has been solidifying over time, and I am certain you will be able to point out exceptions all over the place.

So what would be the solution to such a dilemma? Obviously locking down any forum where the possibility of this sort of abuse is likely via the same method that the BOI was handled would work. But quite frankly, I do not believe it is a feasible plan. Not at this time, and perhaps not at all. In a case like this, I would prefer to handle it in a knee jerk fashion, responding to complaints about it becoming a major problem and concern, and not putting on the bandaid before there has been any appreciable damage done. If it becomes a problem, then I will deal with it accordingly, and hopefully effectively. But at this point, my opinion is that it is a non-issue.

Hope that addresses it a bit. Spent more time and made it longer then I had intended, however.......

 

[Chameleon Company]

Thanks Rich.

I do appreciate the time you took with the information, and think it a valuable perspective for all to see who use the BOI. As I gave it some thought myself, in part with how this thread was unfolding, I had pretty much come to the same conclusion that you state here:

In a case like this, I would prefer to handle it in a knee jerk fashion, responding to complaints about it becoming a major problem and concern, and not putting on the bandaid before there has been any appreciable damage done.

On a somewhat related note, a few of us are in part scratching our heads at the little spat that has emerged from this thread, and in part seeing the BOI-of-old as folks with no real accountability, name, vested interest, etc., decide to have a bit of a tit-for-tat that was mercifully continued in another part of the site. I feel fortunate to be able to claim ignorance as to whatever has them so uptight!

 

[Denisebme]

And out of 772 members only 213 have requested to even be part of the war room. That leaves 559 members who have chosen not to be part of that group. As for forum views it does rank highest, but also I contribute that to the "rubber neck" factor. Everyone by nature wants to see the carnage and will look multiple times before driving on.

As for Frank. Anyone who knows him from the old days of Bob Clark Forums knows all too well Frank speaks his mind and what he feels without holding back. Some of the old timers from Bob Clark Forums can remember the "Get Abused By Frank" forum which was a riot to read. People actually posted there asking to get abused by Frank. TRR does not try to control members as to where they post or what they may post in other fourms. There was no prodding behind the scenes to get him to come here and act in a disruptive manner, as he did it on his own accord. I didn't even know about it till about an hour ago and what ever he posted is deleted. Is what he did right? No, but grouping an entire forum for one members actions is not exactly right either. One has to remember the 559 members who have absolutely nothing to do with the war room at all. Plus as stated in another post here the war room is just what we were known for in the beginning much like Fauna was known for the BOI. People came to Fauna for the BOI and found other things they liked and stayed. Same with TRR.

And trust me it isn't easy keeping what goes on in the war rooms there where it belongs and out of the other general forums. That has given me a new found respect for staff on other sites like here where they do not allow any type of content that the war room allows anywhere at all. Rich and his staff have to be respected because it takes a lot of work dealing with all the complaints and issues which come up daily.

First off, I have to say that not only am I a member of fauna, I am also a member of TRR. I think that what Rich has done here on Fauna is admirable, and I can not say enough positive about this forum.
I'm also a fan of TRR. Not because of the "war" room, though I am a member of it, as I am "hell" here. I truly like Gary, he's real, and a genuine nice guy. His site is small, very personal, and with the exception of "war", which I don't often read, very friendly.
I also know Frank (FCesaro) personally, I bought a snake from him, and I used to work with him. It's a small world. Yes, he's brash and his comments here were completely inappropriate, but he's a good guy.
There are quite a few good sites on the net, TRR brings something very different to the table, and I respect that. Fauna and the BOI are unique, and I can't imagine anyone being able to do it as well and Rick and crew, and IMO, Fauna is probably the best resource on the net for the hobbyist/breeder.
It's good to see Rich and Gary in the same forum, and showing support for each other. Both of you guys are class acts!

 

[Fatman608]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.

 

[Lucille]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.

How dare you say you are a nobody!!! You are a Fauna contributor, you post here, you are a somebody in my book (and you are from Texas too )

 

[Gary O]

This from a NOBODY, I am a member of Fauna and TRR and Kingsnake. All three have something that I like. I use the services of all three differently because all three are different. As far as the topsite thing goes who care all I want is good info is that my snakes stay healthy.

Bro does not matter where you are a member of or anything else. YOur opinion matters no matter what. ANd I agree with your statement about all sites offer something. Becuase they all do. Topsites, I again agree. They are a tool for the honest admins to judge when and how traffic comes.

 

[bigdogg]

Hey I would watch what u say watchdog you have no clue what TRR does if that is what u are talkin about

 

[psilocybe]

perfectly said. i couldn't agree more.

Funny Louise, because if I remember correctly, you were quite active in the War Rooms while a member at TRR. In fact, you would blindly inject yourself into threads you had absolutely no clue about, spouting your innane 3rd grade nonsense simply because you could. When a few members of TRR finally got tired of your brainless posts, completely void of any sense or reason, and confronted you with it, you cried foul and started crying about how horrible TRR is...you Louise, are a prime example of a hypocrite, and trust me, no one at TRR is missing your senseless babble.