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Sunglow genes

mxracer4life

mxracer4life

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I am really starting to grasp co-dom, domiant and recessive genes, but something is bugging the crap out of me. Now I know what you get when you breed a DH sunglow to a DH sunglow, or a DH sunglow to an Albino, or even a het albino, but what do you get if you breed a normal to a sunglow, or a sunglow to a sunglow? Would you get 50/50 normals and hypos possible hets for albino when bred to a normal? And Sunglows, possible super sunglows or hypos and normals all 66% het for albino when a sunglow is bred to a sunglow?
 
Lee posted some great info, just to clarify:

mxracer4life said:
Would you get 50/50 normals and hypos possible hets for albino when bred to a normal?
Click to expand...

sunglow x normal means all the babies would get 1 copy of the albino gene, so they would be 50/50 normals and hypos all het albino, not possible het.

mxracer4life said:
And Sunglows, possible super sunglows or hypos and normals all 66% het for albino when a sunglow is bred to a sunglow?
Click to expand...

again, no hets, all would be either albino or sunglow because they got a copy of the albino gene from both sunglow parents. The hypo part would yield 50% hypos, 25% supers and 25% non-hypo. Can't really tell the supers from the non-supers which is why it's 75% poss super sunglows.

here's a great article all about salmons that was in Reptile magazine
http://www.salmonboa.com/reptileMagArticle.html

Hope I didn't confuse you more! lol
 
signature snakes has a nice morph calculator which is pretty cool and runs off excel
 
AbsoluteApril said:
Lee posted some great info, just to clarify:



sunglow x normal means all the babies would get 1 copy of the albino gene, so they would be 50/50 normals and hypos all het albino, not possible het.



again, no hets, all would be either albino or sunglow because they got a copy of the albino gene from both sunglow parents. The hypo part would yield 50% hypos, 25% supers and 25% non-hypo. Can't really tell the supers from the non-supers which is why it's 75% poss super sunglows.

here's a great article all about salmons that was in Reptile magazine
http://www.salmonboa.com/reptileMagArticle.html

Hope I didn't confuse you more! lol
Click to expand...

That's because it's a Dominant gene and not a Co-Dominant gene. If it was Co-Dominant, it would be so vastly obvious, there wouldn't be any "possible Supers". ;)


Great Post! :thumbsup:
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
That's because it's a Dominant gene and not a Co-Dominant gene. If it was Co-Dominant, it would be so vastly obvious, there wouldn't be any "possible Supers". ;)


Great Post! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Hypo is not a dominant mutation! It is a co-dom mutation in its regular and super form (het and homo form). Many people confuse the "super" form a an co-dom mutation as being Dominant. An example of a Dominant mutation is Arabesque. Arabesque has no super form of the mutation, and it expresses the gene in the first generation, there for it is a dominant mutation. Here are better explanations of the two, that I copied off the net.

Dominant Genes
If a gene (A) is completely dominant, AA and Aa are phenotypically alike. Phenotypes specified by single gene substitutions are called dominants and those that require homozygous combinations for expression are called recessives. Dominants are easier to find than recessives, for dominants are fully expressed when paired with either allele. The individual's genotype may be homozygous or heterozygous if they express a dominant trait. In dominant the trait will be expressed in all generations.

The 4 criteria for identifying dominant genes:

* If the trait if dominant, it will be expressed in all generations.
* The trait is passed from the affected parent to about 50% of his/her children.
* Any parent that does not express the trait does not transmit it to any of his/her children.
* Both males and females can express and transmit the trait.

Incomplete Dominance
Alleles are not always recessive or dominant, but have a range of dominance. In simple or complete dominance the heterozygote, even though genetically different, has the exact same phenotype as one of the homozygotes. This leads to the conclusion that Aa is equal to AA, phenotypically speaking. The recessive gene is present in the heterozygote but hidden by the dominant. Dominance is then considered a physiological effect.
 
Both Dominant and Co-Dominant genes are Dominants, it's how they work when paired in their homozygous state that differentiates the two.

The Most obvious example is Motleys. Supers turn all black and look nothing like the Heterozygous Motleys. It's a form of dominance because it has an immediate effect on the litter. But it shares it's phenotype with the normal gene which is why Motleys look like they do. But in the homozygous form, you get the full expression of the mutated gene, and it's vastly different then the Het Mots.

That's Mendel's law, not mine, or any other herper's out there.


Not so with Salmons. These genes are Dominant. And IMO, not incomplete dominant. They do change the phenotype immensely the first generation, but the Supers are not vastly different from the Het forms. If they were, they would be sold as Supers, and not Poss Supers.

Read up on the pea theory.
 
I believe hypo is an incomplete dominance. It works in the same exact way as the motley, just not as obvious. It is easy to look at a litter of hypos and pick out the obvious supers. Its just that not all supers are that obvious. If Salmons were in fact dominant and not incomplete there would be no such thing as a super salmon. Its how the genetics work, not how they look.
 
Lee Herps said:
I believe hypo is an incomplete dominance. It works in the same exact way as the motley, just not as obvious. It is easy to look at a litter of hypos and pick out the obvious supers. Its just that not all supers are that obvious. If Salmons were in fact dominant and not incomplete there would be no such thing as a super salmon. Its how the genetics work, not how they look.
Click to expand...

Now THAT I completely agree with. I've said it many times in these forums, you can go check if you want. :rofl: They shouldn't be called supers, even if they are proved to be homozygous. Double Dose maybe. ????

But the community as a majority chooses to use Super, so what're ya gonna do? :shrug01:

It rubbed off on me too somewhat I guess. I use the term way too much when referring to Hypos and Salmons.
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Now THAT I completely agree with. I've said it many times in these forums, you can go check if you want. :rofl: They shouldn't be called supers, even if they are proved to be homozygous. Double Dose maybe. ????

But the community as a majority chooses to use Super, so what're ya gonna do? :shrug01:

It rubbed off on me too somewhat I guess. I use the term way too much when referring to Hypos and Salmons.
Click to expand...

Your right, "super" probably isn't the best term to use, but it is now the standard term in the snake industry (not sure if it is used frequent in other reptiles). "Super" just is a term used to describe an animal that has the same co-dominant mutation present on both alleles. Perhaps calling them homozygous hypos (salmons), or homo hypos (for short) would be more of a proper terminology. Though the later sounds like you could be describing the sexuality of a hypo. lol
 
I thought there is still a homozygous form with dominant traits...just that the "super" cannot reliably be discerned from the hets. I don't know the specifics of "incomplete dominant" genetics, but might that have something to do with why some "supers" are obvious & some are not? (though some of those OBVIOUS supers haven't proven to be...as have some hets that nobody would have expected)
 
hhmoore said:
I thought there is still a homozygous form with dominant traits...just that the "super" cannot reliably be discerned from the hets. I don't know the specifics of "incomplete dominant" genetics, but might that have something to do with why some "supers" are obvious & some are not? (though some of those OBVIOUS supers haven't proven to be...as have some hets that nobody would have expected)
Click to expand...

True. As with Co-Dom and Recessive traits. The term simply means that both genes at that locus are identical.

It's people calling Dominant Homozygous traits "super" that creates all the confusion because it's used to describe Homozygous Co-Dom traits. Should be a differentiation between the two.
 
Another question came up concerning sunglows. Now I know from experience when a super hypo is bred to a normal, you get all hypos, but what comes from a super sunglow breeding to a normal? Would you get all DH sunglows? Can it truly be called a "super" sunglow if it does not produce all sunglows when bred to a normal? So a sunglow is a hypo albino, a super sunglow is just a super hypo albino, correct? So when a super sunglow is bred to an albino THEN you would get all sunglows, or am I wrong?
 
Yes a Homozygous hypo produces all hypo offspring. Same with a Homozygous Sunglow except all the offspring also get a copy of the albino gene making them DH for Sunglow.
 
Am I correct about a super sunglow bred to an albino would produce ALL sunglows?
 
I am by no means interested in doing so, I am a albino x het albino fan or het x het. I was just wondering how we can call a super sunglow a "super" when in my opinion it really isn't. It seem like the "sunglow" name needs dropped when mentioning one. A super hypo albino would make more sense to me. It seems our industry has picked up these names to make the snake sound superior, probably for getting more money out of it, like some industries put the name "premium" in front of there products. I call a super hypo a super hypo because that is what I was taught, but now I just want to call it a dominant hypo.
 
Dominant wouldn't be proper either. Dominant describes a relationship with another gene. When a pair of genes are paired, they have a relationship with each other. Either one dominates the other and expresses itself, making the other recessive, or they share an equal relationship, both expressing themselves, which would be your Co-Dominant situation.

Dominant, Co-Dominant and recessive describe the relationship a gene pair has with one another. Heterozygous and homozygous describe whether the 2 genes paired are alike or unalike.

Unless I'm wrong that is. LOL
 
mxracer4life said:
I am by no means interested in doing so, I am a albino x het albino fan or het x het. I was just wondering how we can call a super sunglow a "super" when in my opinion it really isn't. It seem like the "sunglow" name needs dropped when mentioning one. A super hypo albino would make more sense to me. It seems our industry has picked up these names to make the snake sound superior, probably for getting more money out of it, like some industries put the name "premium" in front of there products. I call a super hypo a super hypo because that is what I was taught, but now I just want to call it a dominant hypo.
Click to expand...

"Super Sunglow" is just a term used to describe a Super Hypo Albino. If you have a Sunglow, you don't tell people you have a Hypo Albino. You say you have a Sunglow. Same goes with Super Sunglows. The "Super" part is just describing it is a Homozygous Hypo.
 
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