Red Flag On Matt Haase

[SableLynx]

I believe it is time for this thread to end unless Matt wants to add something. I e-mailed him and informed him I posted the apology so he may have a response to it. Otherwise I hope we can all let it rest. This response was not what I intended and Thank you all for pointing out your concerns. I obviously flubbed up with this title. "Raised eyebrows" would have defiantly been more appropriate.

Good luck with your pet store by the way.

Thanks Paul.

 

[David Scarboro]

White Flag Being waved!!

I had no intention of hurting your reputation. As you can tell I have a great love of all animals and am majorly concerned when I believe them to be mistreated.

I stated my intentions for this post many times so will not do so again. Had I know that people would respond so vehemently to the term "Red Flag" I really would have titled the thread " Raised eyebrows". or "FYI"

I do not believe you to be an evil or a bad person. I am very sorry that you and others thought I did. I believe you are just someone that let an irresponsible thing happen. All of us have flubbed up one way or another at one time or another. Apparently my most recent was the title of this post.

I hope you can understand and possibly even respect my concern for the animals. I would expect being a snake man you might feel the same about your species.


Thanks Paul for pulling on my reins, I was definitely in defensive mode there.

That's what I call a left handed apology. Really, all you say is that you would have retitled the thread, A thread that shouldn't have even been on the boi at all! I would not accept that, you still believe you should have done what you did. There are a lot bigger issues out there to address. As far as ending the thread, be careful what you start! JMHO

 

[Greg Riso]

Imho

I doubt if Matt is a confirmed Leo abuser. Perhaps a little leo awareness counseling is in order lol. Cheryl, I do think posting here was a bit extreme and uncalled for. I do not think Matt intentionally did anything wrong. If he still has the animals, they are healthy, and a good buy, why not follow through and go ahead with your purchase? That is if Matt is even willing to sell then to you. Your purchase of the leos would be the ultimate waving of a white flag and show good faith on your part.

 

[SableLynx]

That's what I call a left handed apology. Really, all you say is that you would have retitled the thread, A thread that shouldn't have even been on the boi at all!

I apologized for what I accept I did wrong and clarified to the best of my ability the reason behind the post.

I would not accept that, you still believe you should have done what you did.

Since the apology is not for you, I am not concerned as to weather you accept it or not. You are absolutly right I did not state I was wrong for posting the thread, and I do not believe I was.

There are a lot bigger issues out there to address.

Just because there are "bigger" issues does not mean we should not address the others. If that were the case would the BOI even exist. There are certainly bigger issues out there than anything thats ever posted here.

As far as ending the thread, be careful what you start!

As far as the thread ending, Well I won't make a special trip to check how it's going, but I have no problem responding either. This thread has certainly spiraled way beyond what I intended to accomplish.

I invited Matt to respond in anyway he sees fit. The rest of you that feel the need, go ahead and post. I will respond as I see fit.

So I'm wrong no matter what I do and there are plenty of David Scarboro's out there to keep it alive. I stand where I stand and you are not going to be able to change that. All we will be doing now is running around in senseless circles. I will continue to restate all I have already stated if you desire me to do so.

My moral values and standards will not be lowered. I do believe that another title to this thread would have stated my intentions better. That does not change what my intentions were. Hey people i am not the one attacking here. I have already stated several times that I concede it to be a mistake on his part. Still worthy of note in my opinion.

JMHO

Thank you for your opinion. Isn't it great to live in a free country where we are entitled to them? (Now there is a bigger issue for you.)

 

[Bill_Leverton]

I doubt if Matt is a confirmed Leo abuser. Perhaps a little leo awareness counseling is in order lol. Cheryl, I do think posting here was a bit extreme and uncalled for. I do not think Matt intentionally did anything wrong. If he still has the animals, they are healthy, and a good buy, why not follow through and go ahead with your purchase? That is if Matt is even willing to sell then to you. Your purchase of the leos would be the ultimate waving of a white flag and show good faith on your part.

Greg I agree 100%, the way I read this whole thing is, It was a done Deal Already JMHO

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I truly do not appreciate this thread one bit, as I am the individual in the spotlight. In no way do I consider myself an experienced leopard gecko keeper, or even an interested one at that, as my focus is large constrictors. I clearly stated in the emails that I had no specific info on these animals, or even an interest in these animals as they were brought to me as part of a trade, nothing I can do about that. As for you saying I stated that I had willingly bred these animals while in my care is completely false information. If you would like, I can also enclose an email of me stating that I had no intention of them breeding, as I had no room for the geckos I was selling, let alone more hatchlings. If you would like to spread rumors on the internet of a "bad" Leo keeper and breeder, that is fine, as I know I do not plan of owning another Leo after these 6. But RED FLAGGING my entire name and reptile business is so unnecessary and ridiculous I couldn't believe my eyes. All that I am guilty of is trying to find these geckos a BETTER home which will actually treat them as a house pet, rather than a re-sale, and giving an outrageous price on them. I absolutely do not appreciate you trying to sabotage my name, and hope that the sensible people here can understand these emails better than the buyer. Most of the folks that have read this thread so far, understand my intentions and I hope the rest of you can do the same.
Matt

You did absolutely nothing wrong Matt. This is a simple case of an overzealous gecko keeper showing poor judgement.

This thread should NEVER have been started

 

[pch101]

I read the E-mails from bottom to top, like you suggested, and all I can say is that this is pathetic! You made him a solid offer, and he was good enough to accept your offer, and then you decide you want to play 20 questions. What is that? And then you go and post a negative thread about him. Holy Crap! Cheryl, He should be the one writing a bad thread about YOU! And guess what, his thread would be warranted. Yours, however, is not.
You say:

"I believe it is time for this thread to end unless Matt wants to add something. I e-mailed him and informed him I posted the apology so he may have a response to it. Otherwise I hope we can all let it rest. This response was not what I intended and Thank you all for pointing out your concerns. I obviously flubbed up with this title. "Raised eyebrows" would have defiantly been more appropriate."

I just love this. After reading post after post of your long winded lame excuses for posting this here, you finally give a half-assed left-handed apology, and then you declare that it is time for this thread to end. Well, unfortunately for you I think it is far from being over. You just do not seem to get it. It is not an issue of the title you chose. THIS THREAD SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN STARTED UNDER ANY TITLE. I do understand why you would like to let it rest as you are getting plenty of negative publicity, but it will not. There are a lot of people that are going to see this and it does not look very good for you at all. You sure did flub up, you just have no idea how bad. You tried to make yourself look good while using matt as a stepping stone, and it totally backfired on you, causing you to get a much needed visit from the karma police. What were you thinking. Wait, don't answer that. Forget I asked...

 

[Rockford]

LAME APOLOGY!!!! This thread should have never been here with any other label....PERIOD!

The things that flagged for me were; 1) his hurry to move them. 2) 6-9 month old geckos that have already successfully produced. 3) His obvious lack of concern about genetics and general health.

Explain the three items that you felt were a good reason to post such a negative thread. Sounds to me if the Leos are breeding at that young of age....they must be healthy to lay eggs.

You wouuld be better off not posting anymore lame apologies and quit justifying your lame post.

bthacker

 

[cyberfrog]

I'll sell you six for $100 right now, and you can have weights and pics of the parents, lol! I have leos falling out of my ears as this guy seems to as well, don't see any real wrongdoing in that thread, sorry.

 

[pch101]

Adam, maybe you should read the whold thread again, and then put yourself in Matt"s shoes, then put yourself in Chryel's shoes. Then think about it for awhile, and while you are at it, think about why the BOI is here and the purpose it is supposed to serve. Then tell us there was no wrong doing.

I will say that the BOI did serve its puropse very well here, just not the way Chryel intended.

 

[Jim O]

Adam, maybe you should read the whold thread again, and then put yourself in Matt"s shoes, then put yourself in Chryel's shoes. Then think about it for awhile, and while you are at it, think about why the BOI is here and the purpose it is supposed to serve. Then tell us there was no wrong doing.

James,

I think Adam is referring to the e-mail thread between Cheryl and Matt, not this entire BOI thread.

Quoting from the original post

I think this e-mail thread says it all.

If I read it correctly, he is saying that Matt did no real wrong here. I think most readers of this (BOI) thread agree that Matt is OK. Cheryl did kind of jump the gun and I hope she now also realizes that.

 

[pch101]

DOH! If that is the case than I think I owe Adam a big apology (see how easy that is Cheryl).

 

[cyberfrog]

No need for apology I screw up just as much as anyone else, but yeah, I did mean the actual email thread back and forth. The entire BOI thread being read I do see both sides of the point, but I still don't see where anyone really did anything wrong. Cheryl was a little overzealous in her concern of the treatment of the Leo's, bout the worst I see. I don't forsee any real reputation damage to either party over this.

 

[pch101]

"Cheryl did kind of jump the gun and I hope she now also realizes that."

Yes, she did jump the gun, but I do not think she realizes it was wrong even now. I have never seen someone come across so self-righteous, pompous, and arrogant as Cheryl has with this thread. She has stated over and over again that she feels her reasons are valid for posting here, and that no one can or will change her mind about that. I think she feels that the title was a bit too harsh, and aside from being severely criticized afterward, that seems to be her only regret that I have seen as of yet.

Anyway, Thanks for the clarification with the Adam thing.

 

[pch101]

"No need for apology I screw up just as much as anyone else, but yeah, I did mean the actual email thread back and forth. The entire BOI thread being read I do see both sides of the point,"

Thanks Adam!

"but I still don't see where anyone really did anything wrong. Cheryl was a little overzealous in her concern of the treatment of the Leo's, bout the worst I see. I don't forsee any real reputation damage to either party over this."

I have to disagree. I do see a wrong here. Actually, I see two wrongs. I see a deadbeat buyer, and I see a person who is posting a totally unwarranted thread here on the BOI. I also think that it will affect Cheryl's reputation. After reading this thread I would think that there would be some sellers that would not want to sell to her. Who in their right mind would sell to someone that would pull such a stunt as Cheryl just has? Bottom line is if you make an offer saying you will take them for a given amount, and the seller agrees, then you as the buyer are committed. I get enough deadbeat buyers as it is. If just one of those deadbeat buyers posted complaints about me afterward, I would be pretty upset, and if I could avoid it by seeing it first hand here on the BOI, I would.

 

[Greg Riso]

On A More Serious Note....

SableLynx
GeckosNotGeico

In the second line above, now HERE is a topic worthy of discussion. Geckos are being exploited on a daily basis by a major insurance carrier and I think this is FLAT OUT WRONG AND MUST CEASE IMMEDIATELY!!! Please write "exploitthegeckoimagenot.org" and voice your concern NOW BEFORE IT IS TO LATE!!!

 

[cyberfrog]

I should have added to the line "I don't forsee any damage to either reputation" that as long as Cheryl stops talking She thought she was doing the right thing, I understand that, and I think everyone else does, although she basically kept digging the hole after the fact. Point is, I don't see where she can't come out of this just fine if she takes this as a learning experience. I would still sell to her as long as her money is green

 

[Jim O]

Yes, Cheryl made a bona fide offer and it was accepted. She should complete the deal if Matt is still willing to sell. Then she might actually have something worthy of posting on the BOI.

 

[MH Reptiles]

I appreciate those who understand this situation, but am still not happy with my name being exploited as a red flag on any forum, or even being the topic of any negative thread. My concern on this matter is not the title of this thread, but the fact that there is any thread at all. There is only so much I can do when six unexpected Leos are shipped in as part of a trade, and pairing them up in the only available cages until re-sale, was the best option I had. Yes, I am guilty of not going all out, buying six 30 gal tanks, tons of gecko food, a gecko care book, a scale to weigh them, and every piece of info on them possible? Please be realistic, Cheryl, in this case. You made a deal, backed out on it because of my lack of knowledge of geckos, accused me of intentionally breeding young Leos, and then hammered me on a BOI forum, that’s just unfair. These geckos were unexpected, so I did the best for them by trying to find them a good home and I get a bad name for it. I am done trying to explain myself, as most of you have done for me. Again, I appreciate those who view this the right way.
Matt Haase

 

[cyberfrog]

I understand Matt and I don't think this will ever affect you negatively. IMO you did everything you were supposed to do. I wouldn't worry too much about the thread, anyone that can read will be able to see the same thing.