Paul Yancick, BAD BUYER!

[pch101]

On Wednesday 11-9-2004, Paul Yancick e-mailed me with this in regard to 0.2 2004 Russian Ratsnakes that I had for sale:

Hello James,
I am interested.Do you have pics if not do they
look like normal russians?Any yellow?Thanks..Paul
Yancick..

I cannot find my response, but It went pretty basic. I answered his questions, and he agreed to take them and asked for my address, which I provided. He then sent me this on Thursday 11-10 2005:

James here is my address.My handwriting blows..lol

Paul Yancick
### N.Lexington Drive apt ###
Peoria,il,61614

It's Veterans day tomorrow so I hope the
post office is open.If not I will send Saturday
morning... Thanks Paul..

We discussed shipping, and I told him that I was going to be shipping packages on Tuesday the 15th, and Wednesday the 16th, and that I would let him know if his payment arrived on time. Well, I did not here from him until I got home late in the afternoon on Tuesday the15th when he informed me (either by e-mail or by phone message) that he sent payment out on Monday the 14th, and that he sent it express mail (signature required), and that I should have received it by now. That was real handy since I was out for the day, and I was to be out the next day as well. Nothing like knowing a head of time. Anyway, I received a phone call from him Later Tuesday evening of the 15th confirming his last message that he had sent payment. He told me that he still wanted me to ship the next day on Wednesday the 15th without even being paid. He then told me that temps were very cold, and that need a heat pack. I told him that I would be more than happy to hold off on shipping until the weather warmed up a bit. He declined and said that he wanted it shipped out on Wednesday for Thursday. At this point it was apparent to me that this guy was pretty inconsiderate to expect me to ship on his word without being paid, and in bad weather to boot.

On Wednesday afternoon, I took my 5 shipments to the local shipping store that I always use and I shipped them off Fed Ex Overnight Priority (the earliest possible delivery option). The packages included in the group were as follows:

1.0 spring of 2005 albino Boa Constrictor that went to Chris Ahrens in New Port Richey, FL
1.0 2005 San Felipe Rosy Boa that went to Tony Dongarra in Currituck, NC
1.0 2005 Fox Snake that went to Steve Goldberg in Whittier (Los Angeles), CA
0.1 2004 Russian Ratsnake that went to Paul Yancick in Peoria, IL
0.1 2004 Russian Ratsnake that went to Seth Andrews in Falmouth, MA

The next morning (Thursday the 17th) I received a call on my Cell phone from Chris Ahrens in New Port Richey, FL. He told me that the Albino Boa had arrived DOA, and that he thought it may have over heated. He asked If I would need pics, and what angles I would need. I asked him to send me a dorsal shot and a ventral shot. I was absolutely crushed. I have sent just under 500 animals over in the last 7 years and NEVER have I had an on-time delivery arrive DOA. In fact, the only DOA that I had ever experienced was about 3 years ago with a package containing 9 alligator Lizards that Airborne Express lost and delivered 4 days late with 6 of the 9 lizards being DOA. However, that was a very late package, and there is no way to know where the heck it was during those 4 days. It was upsetting, but it really was not a huge surprise.

Anyway, back to where we were at. I canceled my plans and drove home and looked at the pictures that Chris sent, and it was exactly as Chris had said. I was crushed. I then refunded his money through Paypal. I then checked my messages only to here that Steve Goldberg in Whittier (Los Angeles), CA had his Fox Snake arrive DOA as well. I was in total shock. Then the next message is from Paul Yancick in Peoria, IL, and he is saying that his Russian Rat arrived DOA, and he is cussing and swearing like a maniac through out the whole message, and it is all directed at me. I then called Steve Goldberg and offered him a refund. He was very understanding. I proceeded to call the other two guys that were receiving packages that day, and I learned that the San Felipe Rosy Boa that went to Tony Dongarra in Currituck, NC also arrived DOA as well! That is 4 out of 5 packages that arrived DOA! At this point I am just thinking in my head "this is not happening, someone wake me up". I went ahead and refunded Tony his money, and checked the rest my e-mails. This is what I had from Paul Yancick: Paul's e-mails will be in red, and mine will be in Blue. NOTE: some words have been edited for obvious reasons.

DOA SMOOTH MOVE
It was damn near frozen solid.I little 3 inch heat pad
isnt going to stop 18 degree weather.You vented the
top lid and it released any heat that was there to
start with.What the hell were you thinking?You can
have it shipped back on your dime and I expect a full
refund.Killing a reptile out of shear stupidity just
pisses me the f@@k off....I will be sleeping the rest
of the day as I work doubles and really dont have time
for this s#!t...Paul Yancick

Response #1
You can ship it back at your expence. That is in my terms, and with your
attitude, that is what I will require.
james

Response #2
Paul, let me also state that calling me and using that type of language is
unacceptable. The same goes with e-mailing me profanity. I will no longer
be willing to discuss any of this on my phone, and I am formally telling you
now that you are not welcome to call me. Furthermore, any and all e-mails
from you that contain profanity will be deleted and ignored. Either grow up
and be an adult, or go bark up another tree. I will not even discuss things
with someone under those conditions.
James

Your right
We can discuss this on the Board of Inquiry.You flat
out killed a living creature out of total stupidity.I
guess being a killer is better than being someone with
a potty mouth.I dont even give a rats ass about the
money,eating your ass alive online will be enough.I
wont even need words just pics of the way you send
reptiles....Paul Yancick

Paul, It is not just your "potty mouth", it is your attitude, and it is nothelping you or the situation. So, in short, send back the snake, and when I get it, and determin it to be the snake that I sent you, I will be more than happy to refund your money. This is a right I reserve to use at my
discression (as specified in my terms), and I have decided to use it in this
situation. Honestly, I could not think of a better person to use it with.
James

I apologize
You had pics and a phonecall within 10 minutes after
my wife signed for it.Go check out the ratsnake forum
at kingsnake.You might just notice something
there.It's not about the money, 100 bucks is kids
change.It's about how you killed a snake out of
ignorance.As a fanatic reptile lover it ripped me
apart when I pulled it's cold dead body out of the
container.
I will apologize for the vulgar phone call and
emails.Im still mad as hell but will get over it.Why
in the name of god did you put cut outs in the top of
the insulation?Heat goes up and out.Even in hot
weather that isnt a good idea if your using cold
packs.I understand your from a hot climate zone but I
would and should of told you how to pack it so it
would arrive here in good condition.Ive had packages
sent here in subzero weather that have made it
safe...Paul


Thank for that. I do not need pics or a body. It is apparent that thesnake arrived DOA. I just require civil treatment. I will go ahead and
send you a refund. Thanks for your time.
James

I take it back. You are a complete fool.With over 2000 posts in
kingsnake and a long line of friends word of mouth
will ruin you.Not once did you apologize or try to
make right what you messed up.Ive had over 40 emails
asking who the shipper is.Until now I would not give a
name.Ive gave you a chance to make right.Now
suffer.F@@k you....Paul Yancick.


Watch the posts grow at kingsnake in the rat forum..Im enjoying this..worth 100 bucks to me..lol..

What are you talikin about? Did you not get my last e-mail?
You know nothing about what you are talking about, but that is ok, as you
prove only to make yourself look more foolish with every comment you make.
Paul, do you really think that you are making wise decisions. I honestly
think you need medication or some kind of psyciatric help. I really do
pitty you.
James

Paul, just to let you know, you are still welcome to a refund. However, I will just need you to send the body as I originally asked you to do. This is simply due to the fact that you have proven to be very unprofessional,
and your unpredictable mood swings have cast doubt on your character. Also, your e-mail address has been blocked from my account due to your abusive language and attitude, as will any others that you try to contact me with. I tried to keep a dialog open with you, but you apparently lack the ability to have a conversation on a professional level. Again, thanks for your
time. James

I will no longer have contact with you.I will see you on the Board Of Inquiry.My attitude had nothing to do with a semi frozen snake.Ive gave you enough chances.My times,pics,phone call were all done within 10 minutes after receiving a dead semi frozen snake.My qoate friends in the rat,boa,and corn forums now know who you are and how you deal.You could have stopped the whole thing by owning up to what you did.You werent man enough to do the right thing.Keep the money....Paul Yancick.

Paul, I told you at one point (after the only semi-sane message that you sent me) that I would send you a refund, and that I would NOT need pics or a body. You then went on another crazy spree e-mailing me with more profanity. Why? What about my message did you find to be so offensive? At this point, I do not care. That was your decesion. Now I will stick to my guns, and I will require what my terms clearly state on my website. It is that for a reason. I reserve this right especially for people in this would that are rude, profane, jerks. Your behaviour has been unacceptable, and unprofessional.
James

It has also become apparent to me that you have no desire for a refund. You
just seem to want a fight. This is obvious from your initial responses, and
from your reply to me offering you a non-conditional refund. Your behavior
really makes no sense to me at all. Why did you not just take the refund
when it was offered to you, and be done with it? Instead you went back into
crazy mode. What gives?
James

I also just realized that you did send me pics. Thank you for that. I
never even realized it until now because you never stated in the headder or
text that there were pics attached. Like I said, thanks for the pics, now
just send me your paypal address, and I can paypal you a refund. You can
cuss, and curse all you want, I dont care at this point. Just send me your
Paypal address, and I can be done with you. How hard is that??? If you do
not have one, let me know, and I will mail you a refund just like I agreed
to do earlier. Now I have offered you another refund, AND I have given you
a choice as to how you would like it. All I require form you is a decision
as to how you would like it. It really does not get any easier.
James

I have never delt with such a rude, demanding, condacending, inconsiderate customer in my entire life. As for the shipments, the snake was a very cold tollerant species in a deli that was in a box lined with 1inch styrofoam and a handwarmer pack for some heat. I have shipped less cold tollerant snakes with less insulation with the same heat source in even colder weather, and never had a problem. I do not believe this was about heat, or cold. I believe that these animals were exposed to something else, and I will probably never know. I do know that this is more than a coincidence. Either way, Paul deserves a refund. The fact that he acted like complete jerk shouldn't have anything to do with it. The ball is in his court. I would prefer paypal if available, because I will have instant proof that he was refunded

 

[JJFOUTZ]

That is 4 out of 5 packages that arrived DOA!

So what happened that caused all the DOAs?

 

[KelliH]

Paul sounds like he may have a bit of a temper, yes. It will be interesting to see if he replies to this thread, and how he conducts himself here.

My questions for you are this: what were the low temps where you shipped the snake to?
why didn't you use a real 40 hour heat pack?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

James

The guy is obviously unstable and completely unprofessional. I wouldn't waste a lot of thought and energy on him.

Out of curiosity, can you describe the packaging and heat packs used in the shipments? The temps at your end and the destinations would help too. It may help to shed some light on what was obviously a disastrous shipping day

 

[connorrm]

Not sure if I missed it but did you ever end up getting the original money he had sent? I tried to find it but it was long LOL!

 

[Griz]

Jim, if you do a little bit of research, heck even on fauna, you will see this guy is a loose cannon. He has postings out there about how we need to drop the bomb on the middle east so we can bring our gas prices down. He threw a fit on ReptileAuction and started writing about how we should all boycott ReptileAuction etc.

I say, especially given his propensity to go off the deep end, that you refund the money and move on. Nothing this individual states is going to be held in high regard nor is it going to affect your customers.

As a side note, I don't live to far from this guy and can tell you that the 16th was very cold here in Central Illinois. It was far below normal temps so I can see how an animal would die in transit in this weather regardless of the precautions taken.

Lastly, as an individual who has received items from you, they were packed extremely well and without any problems of any kind.

Griz

 

[Jim O]

Lastly, as an individual who has received items from you, they were packed extremely well and without any problems of any kind.

That goes double for me (bought from James twice). If anyone is more obsessive than James about packing right, checking temps, following up, etc, I haven't met him.

Chalk it up to "crap happens". The buyer is being made whole which is at it should be. His reaction to the whole thing would leave me with a decided "no" should he ever approach me about doing business.

As people here and elsewhere have said over and over, it's not how many good transactions one has but how one handles the inevitable bad one. James has handled this just fine in my book.

 

[Greg Riso]

A Couple of Points

Shipping prior to receiving payment should be avoided at all costs. I've been mr. nice guy and been burned more than once from sending without full payment, even from a customer I'd dealt with before. If you did not receive payment from him then there is nothing to refund and you should NOT do so. So I ask you James, have you received his payment and, just as important, has it cleared?
It is possible that regardless of what the temps were where you are or where you shipped to, the temps at the carrier's hub may have been a factor since all of the packages would have more than likely gone through there. Another possibility I've heard of is live animals being placed together with frozen rodent shipments. I know of a reptile dealer in FL that ran into several DOA's and found out his animals were being shipped along with frozen rodents. The CO2 given off from the dry ice killed his animals more than once until he realized what was going on. He ended up having to schedule his shipments on different days to avoid this problem. I don't know if this is possibly what could have happened but who knows what our packages are exposed to in transit? Another possibilty is loss of cabin pressure hence insufficient air.
I agree the customer's handling of this situation is uncalled for and I think your reputation will not be harmed by his actions.
In the future, I would not allow customers to dictate when you should ship. If payment has not been received, no go. If you don't feel the weather conditions are acceptable, no go, and so on. Keep the animal's interest a priority and as long as you convey that to the customer I think they will appreciate your concern.

 

[pch101]

COLOR=Red]"So what happened that caused all the DOAs?"[/COLOR]

I wish I knew for sure. I think they may have been exposed to some kind of chemical. Just a gut feeling.

"My questions for you are this: what were the low temps where you shipped the snake to?"

If I remember correctly he said it would be down to 18 that night. I shipped only due to his insistence. It was a bad move on my part. I should have just said no.

"Why didn't you use a real 40 hour heat pack?"

Three reasons. first, it was not a very large box, and I had concerns about O2 depletion. Second, the snake was a very cold tolerant species that was in a well insulated 1 inch thick Styrofoam lined box. It would not take much to heat it from the inside, and it would take a very long period of exposure to very cold temps to drop the inside temps anywhere near dangerous levels. And third, because he gave me no time to get any thing else. He insisted I ship then. Again, that was my fault to let myself be bullied around. I went to two different Walmarts to get the 18 heat packs, but they were out, I only had a 10 hour heat pack left. Again, I am convinced without a doubt that there was something else tat contributed to this snakes death.

"Out of curiosity, can you describe the packaging and heat packs used in the shipments? The temps at your end and the destinations would help too. It may help to shed some light on what was obviously a disastrous shipping day"

Temps here were in the upper 70s to low 80s during the day, and 50s at night. All boxes were the same size. 14" L x 8" W x 6" H, with 1 inch thick Styrofoam lining. I will try to post some pics soon. All packages were delivered on time. Here are some stats.

1.0 spring of 2005 albino Boa Constrictor that went to Chris Ahrens in New Port Richey, FL. Temps ranged from lows of the mid 40s to highs in the mid 70s if I remember correctly. (18 hour heat pack) DOA. Chris said the snake was warm and thought the cause of death could be O2 deprivation.

1.0 2005 San Felipe Rosy Boa that went to Tony Dongarra in Currituck, NC
(18 hour heat pack) DOA. Tony thought it may have over heated.

1.0 2005 Fox Snake that went to Steve Goldberg in Whittier (Los Angeles), CA (no heat pack) weather was fair and similar to here. Snake arrived DOA. Steve said the snake was warm.

0.1 2004 Russian Ratsnake that went to Paul Yancick in Peoria, IL. (10 hour heat pack) Snake arrived DOA. Paul felt it died from exposure to cold.

0.1 2004 Russian Ratsnake that went to Seth Andrews in Falmouth, MA. (18 hour heat pack) Snake arrived in good condition.

"Not sure if I missed it but did you ever end up getting the original money he had sent? I tried to find it but it was long LOL!"

I am glad you asked. Yes, after I got home from shipping the doomed packages, the mail lady brought me an express letter that contained "my" payment.

"Lastly, as an individual who has received items from you, they were packed extremely well and without any problems of any kind.
Griz"

Thanks Griz I appreciate that. I am about as discouraged as a person can be at this point.

Shipping prior to receiving payment should be avoided at all costs. I've been mr. nice guy and been burned more than once from sending without full payment, even from a customer I'd dealt with before. If you did not receive payment from him then there is nothing to refund and you should NOT do so. So I ask you James, have you received his payment and, just as important, has it cleared?
It is possible that regardless of what the temps were where you are or where you shipped to, the temps at the carrier's hub may have been a factor since all of the packages would have more than likely gone through there. Another possibility I've heard of is live animals being placed together with frozen rodent shipments. I know of a reptile dealer in FL that ran into several DOA's and found out his animals were being shipped along with frozen rodents. The CO2 given off from the dry ice killed his animals more than once until he realized what was going on. He ended up having to schedule his shipments on different days to avoid this problem. I don't know if this is possibly what could have happened but who knows what our packages are exposed to in transit? Another possibilty is loss of cabin pressure hence insufficient air.
I agree the customer's handling of this situation is uncalled for and I think your reputation will not be harmed by his actions.
In the future, I would not allow customers to dictate when you should ship. If payment has not been received, no go. If you don't feel the weather conditions are acceptable, no go, and so on. Keep the animal's interest a priority and as long as you convey that to the customer I think they will appreciate your concern.

Greg, you are right as usual. I just let my self get caught up in trying to please this guy.

Let me say that I could have handled it better myself. Even though this guy was horrible to me right from the start both on the phone and in e-mail, I could have ignored it and just given him a refund.

I realize I technically could have required him to send the snake back to me, but I had no reason to disbelieve him. I was just being spiteful, and I realized that very shortly into it, which is why I told him early on that I would not need the body. They he went wacko (again), and I fell right into his trap. So in short I will wait to hear from him to see if I can Paypal him as I would prefer to do, and If I do not hear from him by the end of the week, I will just send him a refund in the mail registered mail.

 

[pch101]

I forgot to highlight griz's comments:

"Lastly, as an individual who has received items from you, they were packed extremely well and without any problems of any kind.
Griz"

I would also like to say thanks to Jim O for his comments, and everyone else that responded as well. I would not have brought this here but He has threatened me with it twice in e-mail, so I figured I would bring it to light. I will not be bullied by this guy anymore. I will also say that I have a zero tolerance policy with abusive behavior on my phone or my e-mail. I gave him one warning with the e-mail just to keep communication lines open due to his loss of phone privileges. When he blew that chance I blocked his e-mail. His last communication with me was through a new account, and He can continue to use that account to contact me as long as he keeps things on a professional level.

 

[pch101]

Here is a picture of the vented lid that made Paul Yancick go nuts.

 

[pch101]

I figured I would include an e-mail from Tony Dongarra in NC that I received the day after this all ahppened.

"Just wanted to say I appriciate how you handled this. I'd chauked it up as one of those things that happen. No reall blame to place and hoped only to learn something from it. Well what I learned besides confirmation of my
fears about heat packs is that there is another breeder out there who's a
class act that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend or do business with again."
Tony Dongarra

Thanks for understanding Tony. I would reccomend you to anyone as well!

 

[Greg Riso]

The Lid Looks Fine

If that lid was covered with cardboard flaps on top I don't believe there would be that much heat loss and certainly there would be enough oxygen flow allowed to sustain the heat pack plus animal. My experience with shipping is usually overheating is a much more serious condition than being on the cold side. I recently had an animal arrive cold to the touch but when I Rayteked it the body temp was about 70 degrees. Many people think if an animal doesn't feel like it just came out of a toaster oven then it's to cold. I've never lost an animal from being to cold and still don't believe that's what happened. Don't let it get you to down James. You may want to avoid multiple shipments until you can possibly identify just what happened. It may have been something totally beyond your control. I had a box come in with red fire ants crawling around the surface of the box (not inside). Maybe a storage container was fumigated for all you know with your animals present. You may never know but as someone else stated, "**** happens."

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey James

I certainly have to sympathize with such a horrible batch of shipping results, and also my condolences with having to deal with the knucklehead. Had he brought (or should he choose to bring) the situation to the BOI, he would have been easy pickins'. My alarm is much more the combined DOA's, which I'm sure were like a bad dream. Your track record for successful shipping speaks for itself, and like you, I think it safe to surmise that there was something unique to this set of shipments that caused their demise, not four separate and unconnected coincidences, etc. That the other three DOA's (besides Mr. Stupid) all were not the result of cold, I would put little credence in anything said by Paul ..... I guess like in gymnastics scoring, throw out the high, the low, and the ignorant. I am sure you are looking at all angles, and I am at a loss to suggest possibilities that you haven't already thought of, except as I said, that it was not four random bad events all happening at once. If and when you get any ideas there, pass them on, as if it happened to you, it can happen to the rest of us. Thanks again for sharing it all.

 

[pch101]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate that. I may have Chris send me the body to see if there is some kind of tests that could be done. I doubt it though. Still, that is one other rerason that would have been nice to have the Russian rat sent back to me.

Life is a numbers game. If you do anything that involves any risk(s) enough times, then eventually your luck will run out. Whatever happened was a total fluke. I guess my number was up. I am just sad some very nice animals died as a result.

 

[pch101]

Here is an interesting post from Paul that he posted on Kingsnake's Ratsnake forum. How is this for spinn???

"I sent a heartfelt message to the guy expressing my digust at his ignorance.This man was recommended by a name I trusted.According to the person who sent the snake the warranties are void even though I called and emailed him within 5 minutes after receiving it.Along with pics explaining in vivid detail how he screwed up.He wont last for long in this business....Paul Yancick"

Hmmm.

 

[SPJ]

Sorry to hear about the losses and the fact that you have to deal with this on top of it. I have never bought from you but I can say that if I was ever in the market for a rosy boa, you would be the one I contact.
This guy is doing nothing but making himself look like he needs some prozac. It won't have any affect on your reputation.
Good luck. It's people like Paul that made me decide to take a break from the business side and go back to being a hobbyist with a few select animals.

 

[South Dixie Dragons]

Don't sweat it too much James, everyone here on Fauna know you are one of the good guys!

 

[pch101]

Steve, I actually thought of you, and the crap you have had to deal with lately, throughtout this whole thing. I have to say, I understand completely what you are saying, and your motives for scaleing things back.

 

[pch101]

Thanks Michele. And Yes, I have to agree, mean People do SUCK!