Matt Bruner of MB Reptiles.... Professional all the way!

[dwedeking]

Matt,

I think there is a lesson here (not that you've done anything wrong). Your friend is correct in that the internet is a different sort of sales arena than has been dealt with previously and there are pros and cons to using it as the tool it has become.

The lesson. When dealing with species that are rarely produced in captivity have your friend take photos of the eggs and hatchings. This can be done in an way that will not give away his identity and allow him the privacy that is his right and also protect your sources (which is your right). Due to the abundance of people mislabeling or criminally misrepresenting their animals (and all products online in general) those of us that sell online have a larger than normal hurdle to jump in order to win the consumer's confidence and complete the sale. For those that are older I am sure they remember a time when people would never think to give a credit card number over the phone to order a product. There was a lack of confidence in the retailers. This has changed as consumers are more confident now and are quite willing to give a card number verbally. That is where internet sales are now, people are just becoming comfortable in buying online (as a mass) so there are still extra hoops we have to jump through to satisfy customers (or potential customers).

 

[BossReptiles]

Matt,

I hope you can learn from this.You can keep BSing till you're blue in the face. Thats not going to change the fact for me so far, that these are imports. I usually have no pity for this but you're young(Im young too, I hope) and just starting out so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Making an extra 50 bucks here and there, to say theyre cb, and not being sure or just lying to make an extra 50 bucks, or sell them quicker, will not pay your bills for long. Thats why the BOI is here. Just be honest man, you can't lose.Plus you can build a business for yourself that has some integrity. I sincerely hope you even give half a crap about what you're selling. Best of luck

 

[ScottsReptiles]

Scott,

Does it not strike you as odd, when you write, "The thing is.. the people asking for the most proof are not involved in the transaction at all!"???

If those not involved in the transaction should not be asking for proof, why is it any better for those who were not involved to chastise those asking for proof? It just seems ironic to me.

wow man.. that was deep

By the way, Scott,

THAT'S why this sort of thing concerns us all, regardless of whether any one of us were involved in a deal for these animals or not. For good or bad, this community continues to rely on each individual to help shape the face we present to the world of potential customers.

If that is the case.. then that is the exact reason I posted what I did. I always find it sad that one persons opinion can have such a big impact on something that is not at all important. If all we do is bicker within our community... how does that shape the face we present?

The biggest problem I have with this thread is because it is based upon the belief that the price of the animals is far too low for them to be captive born... wait a minute... complaining about a reasonably priced animal? Oh my.. somebody selling a herp for what is worth instead of the inflated over exaggerated price that some poor schlepp is paying day in and day out ( how much are "designer" ball pythons going for? how about "designer" leopard geckos..the list can go on... 5 dollar herps being sold for 3 to 4 to 5 figures.. I am a corallus keeper... I love them.. but.. do you really think amazon basins or other high end arboreals are really worth that amount of money?? nope.. but.. we continue to pay them)

 

[BossReptiles]

Sheeesh

You know I was having a hard time believing anyone could even believe their excuse...but there you were.

You Scott, just said
The biggest problem I have with this thread is because it is based upon the belief that the price of the animals is far too low for them to be captive born.

WTF Scott???? Where youd get that from?
This is about someone claiming to sell captive bred mangroves, but having no proof to back it up.This is a difficult species to breed, very difficult.

 

[Wilomn]

The biggest problem I have with this thread is because it is based upon the belief that the price of the animals is far too low for them to be captive born...

I think you are missing the point scott. I don't think the point of this thread is the price that the monitors were being offered at. I do think that price was an indicator that something was not kosher here.

The fact that there is NO proof of what they were claimed to be IS the point of this thread.

As was mentioned earlier, someone got some 100% het pieds that his friend produced but there are no pics or paperwork. The guy has been doing it for years and he swears they're legit. Only 100.00. How many do you want?

The lack of verification and the end seller makes this WHOLE deal real fishy.

Wes Pollock

 

[sputnik]

No proof

The lack of verification and the end seller makes this WHOLE deal real fishy.

wes, that hits the nail on the head.!

 

[mbreptiles]

You know I don't need to "lie" to sell my animals. I am insulted by that. It is like this. My friend does not want to deal with people that are so picky that they want pics of the parents, eggs, hatching etc. etc etc. That is why he doesn't deal with people that want all this information. Having over 1000 animals not to mention all the other things he is involved in, you don't have time to take pictures of each individual animal, hatching, etc. I don't have nearly what he has and I find it hard to take pictures of all the animals that I need to post. I don't have 1/20th of what I have for sale on my site. Let alone pics of the parents, eggs, etc. The reason that I get animals for reasonable prices is because I know I don't have to question him when he tells me something is CB or that he produced it. Would you trust one of your really good friends if he sold you an animal and told you he produced it. Yes, you wouldn't question him. I know that he has produced a lot of animals over the years. I also know that he has always taken care of me, and never tried to sell me something that wasn't what he said it would be. If you have a problem with me turning around and selling it, DON'T BUY IT! If you need to question me and my animals, then you should be buying from me. I have never had any complaints about anything I have sold. My customers have always been happy with the animals that I have sent them including Neil! If you want pictures of all this stuff, than you will be charged for it! When I sell animals with individual pics and what not I usually charge for it. For instance if you want crested gecko babies, I sell them for $40.00 each. If you want me to take pictures of 10 babies or more so that you can pick one out. I am charging you $60.00 each. Why becuase my time is worth something. Neil did not ask for any of these pictures, if he had I would have told him that it is to much trouble for me to call my friend, drive 20 minutes each way. Take pictures and send them to him. If he would have wanted all that, he would have paid much more. Why because I don't have time for it. I don't know how many animals that you all take care of everyday. I have over 1000 lizards alone and that takes a lot of time to tend to them. If I had 1000 snakes and that was it, I would have more time for this. The bottom line is, my friend doesn't need to take pictures to prove anything to me. Why? because he knows that I trust him. Since he doesn't do the whole interenet thing, why does he need to take pictures to show everyone? He doesn't! I try to get pictures of most of my animals, but sometimes I don't have time. The animals that I have taken the time to have pics of the parents, eggs, and the actual animal for sale, I ask top dollar for. I don't know how many animals you all have, but I am sure you can imagine if you don't have this many, how much time it would take. If you do have this many animals, I am sure you understand what I am saying. If I could have a couple extra hours everyday, I would have about 20 ads on every site that lets you post, along with 150 more animals for sale on my own site.

 

[PAUL BOLLINGER]

"I just got delivery of a gorgeous pair of CAPTIVE BORN Mangrove Monitors produced by Matt.... They are everything he said they were and are in perfect shape...."-Neil

" so I CALLED Matt to ask him in no uncertain terms if they were CB or imported.... He told me POINT BLANK that a friend of his breeds all sorts of Monitors and has had great success with Mangroves, of which these are two.... Matt (himself) didn't breed them, but a friend of his did.... He swore to me up and down that he was telling me the truth.... "-Neil

I don't know too much about Matt but I do find it interesting that Neil Gubitz is back in the lime light for what?....Misrepresenting animals. Give him another chance, Right Guys? Cause that's what makes people right their wrongs...... Right?.................WRONG!

I don't believe Matt at all about a friend that's been in the business for 25+ years, but I guarantee ya that Neil knew what he was doing. Look at Neil's running buddies and his past!

Show me in one instance where Neil would Pass on the Savings. He's a crook and Crooks do what they can to make money and not get noticed. I think that he figured that he could make a little x-tra money by falsely representing some animals. That's who he is and that's what he does.

The Cheetah has yet again failed to shed it's spots.....But the good thing is that when you find one, chances are the animals that he's associating with aren't antelope......

 

[PAUL BOLLINGER]

Matt

Question...

Have you purchased or imported any WC Mangroves this year?

 

[sputnik]

Ramble

It is like this. My friend does not want to deal with people that are so picky that they want pics of the parents, eggs, hatching etc. etc etc.

Gee, how DARE people be so picky and ask for pics of the parents and eggs hatching!

That's just incredible! When you sell to the herp community, providing such details is not just required when asked for them, but pretty easy to do. Of course, no one is asking your friend to do anything on here.... simply sending you the pics takes just minutes!

If that's your friends attitude, if he even exists, then he has a problem with accountability.

That is why he doesn't deal with people that want all this information.

So, he refuses to be accountable? Doesn't stop him from sending you the pics now does it?

Having over 1000 animals not to mention all the other things he is involved in, you don't have time to take pictures of each individual animal, hatching, etc.

Well, that's just a load of BS, that's a lame excuse.

The reason that I get animals for reasonable prices is because I know I don't have to question him when he tells me something is CB or that he produced it. Would you trust one of your really good friends if he sold you an animal and told you he produced it. Yes, you wouldn't question him.

Of course you wouldn't question a friend you know. BUT we don't know this person, that's why a simple request for emailed pics is being asked. I am not asking for a name, just a few pics!

When I sell animals with individual pics and what not I usually charge for it. For instance if you want crested gecko babies, I sell them for $40.00 each. If you want me to take pictures of 10 babies or more so that you can pick one out. I am charging you $60.00 each.

You have got to be kidding! If you think people are going to swollow that insane piece, then good luck!

I'm sorry, but that post you just made Matt is a whole lot of rambling and question dodging.

If you can't provide 2 or 3 pics then you have a problem.

 

[dinopolis]

professional all the way?

sounds to me like you made a call between offering great customer service or mass quantity service and while I believe to each his own, your choice is not the one I would have gone for....when I can't go out of my way to do as much for the buyer as I can...bringing them confidence in the sale, and leaving them with the most positive experience I can....well, I guess for me the thrill would be gone....a pride thing I guess for me....I maybe just take it for granted, but I feel it comes with the territory, particularly when it comes to internet sales.....
I have built up my collections many times past my brink, and always scaled back when it became so much that it was something I dreaded; feeding and cleaning cages, etc.
I know one thing for certain...if you told me you were going to charge me for pics of an animal I can only view through my comp, monitor prior to sale.....you would not get any of my hard earned $
and....
I think it is inappropriate to offer someone a cbb animal you did not produce based on the word of someone not involved in the transaction to begin with, without some proof...whether it be pics or whatever....which I honestly believe is the stick in the spokes here anyways....especially given this particular species.

-Raymond Melrose Sr.

 

[mbreptiles]

No I have not purchased any WC Indo Mangroves this year. I did not say that I charge for the pics, I charge for my time.

"I think it is inappropriate to offer someone a cbb animal you did not produce"

Well then, if you bought some baby beardeds to resell, you would provide pics of the parents, eggs, etc. ramble ramble. How would we know that they were CB? For all we know they might have been smuggled. You know, the animals are SOLD so get over it. You all just like to pick apart people because you don't have anything better to do, or are you afraid of the compitition, jealous that you can't produce them. Whatever it is, grow up. Act like adults. If you have a problem with me, then call me. I don't have any pictures for you. Neil did not ask me for pics of them hatching. If he had I would have told him straight up! I don't have any, and the person I purchased them from most likely doesn't as well. In fact he only saw a picture of 1 of them. I sold them to him at a wholesale price.I think it is inappropriate to offer someone a cbb animal you did not produce What else do you want? Their is nothing more I can do.

I have a question for all of you. Since I have tried to keep up with all of yours. Since these monitors were sold at wholesale prices. If you call up, let's say for instance Burgundy Reptiles, and you want to purchase some Baby panther chamleons that are on there list. Would you ask them for pics of the parents? Well I don't think I need to wait for the answer. I already know it, Why? because they would laugh at you. I sold these at wholsale prices, when people want a wholesale price on things that they are ordering I do not take a million pics. Especially if I don't have access to pictures that they are asking for like eggs. I am not going to tell some one, yeah I will get you pics of the eggs if I don't think that I can. I can not rewind time and have animals hatch out again. So what you are asking for IS NOT POSSIBLE.

Back to my example about the cresteds. When someone calls me up and says I want 10 flamed baby cresteds. I tell them that I can pick out some nice ones for them and they will be happy with what I send them. If they say that they want pictures of each one then they will not get a discount or wholesale price. They will be charged full price. If they are not happy with what they purchase from me, they can ship it back and I will refund the purchase price or I can replace them.

 

[sputnik]

Nothing new!

Well then, if you bought some baby beardeds to resell, you would provide pics of the parents, eggs, etc. ramble ramble. How would we know that they were CB? For all we know they might have been smuggled.

Beardeds are easily produced! If somone asks for individual pics of the babies, you provide what the customer asks for.... it's as simple as that, but again, this is more hollow rambling from you and nothing more then that! You say a lot, but actually say nothing!

You all just like to pick apart people because you don't have anything better to do, or are you afraid of the compitition, jealous that you can't produce them. Whatever it is, grow up. Act like adults.

That I've heard before, it's nothing new, you can play whatever twist you want to divert attention from the questions, but you cannot and will not provide a shred of proof that these monitors are captive born and bred. I wish you could!

I have a question for all of you. Since I have tried to keep up with all of yours. Since these monitors were sold at wholesale prices. If you call up, let's say for instance Burgundy Reptiles, and you want to purchase some Baby panther chamleons that are on there list. Would you ask them for pics of the parents? Well I don't think I need to wait for the answer. I already know it, Why? because they would laugh at you.

Again, these are not the monitors in question! You can't compare breeding panthers and beardeds to that of mangroves. It's a nice way to try and change the direction of this thread, but This whole thread pretty much comes down to someone incapable of providing proof. You may well be right Matt, these may well be CBB monitors.

But it is hard to believe when I for one don't knew the person actually producing them and have not seen anything to back up the claim.

If they really are, then good luck with the future! But when someone can't provide proof... it usually means they are not!

 

[mbreptiles]

Well I appreciate that much from you. I hope the future is good for you as well. I am sorry that I can't provide proof, I have no way to go back in time. I said that pictures were not available many of times. If he doesn't have any, he doesn't have any, period. There is nothing I can do about that. I just don't understand why I am being hounded for something that is not available to me. Like I said before, if you don't like what you see, then don't buy them. I don't sit and try to get things from you guys all the time. Could I go and pick apart everyone of your sites, auctions, listings, and ads. I am sure I could find something. The fact of the matter is, that is not the type of person I am. I am a business man, and I am not here to make enemy's. So give me the same respect you would want me to give you, if you don't like something that I am selling then fine. I don't think that anything came out of everyone hounding me for something I don't have!

As for the comment about the 100% het pied balls. Let's try to be more mature than that.

I wish you all good luck with your projects!

 

[sputnik]

Anyway....

Well Matt, I guess I for one will have to take your word for it that they are CBB.... It certainly doesn't affect me one way or the other as I did not buy them from you, but you don't exactly create confidence in a potential buyer by not being able to provide proof and charging for your time.

I certainly have no ill will towards you personally, but like everyone else I'll just have to take the same boat and purchase WC or Captive hatched.

 

[dinopolis]

pictures = 1000 words

I remember reading earlier on in this thread that you said you had a digital camera....go snap some photos of the parents...and the nest site....or how about the animals breeding? There is just no way in my opinion that someone would produce captive born animals of this stature and sell them as wholesale....and then be offered to the public wholesale by a second party....even cbb green iguanas still go for more than imports anywhere you go.
How long was the incubation period on these eggs and at what temps? How many eggs were in the clutch? What month did the animals breed? What was the nest site? How about some data to substantiate your claims?!
I don't know any breeders that would have passed up so many photo ops.....
You should have asked your buddy some of these questions yourself before accepting his word as truth.....or at least to back up your own claims as you planned to call them cbb....seems like common sense to me. Just as herp enthusiast I would have asked for my own curiosities.

-Raymond Melrose Sr.

 

[Wilomn]

As far as the fecals go, my buddy next door has a son who's really into biology, and he has a microscope.... I literally take a fecal sample over and *I* look at it through the microscope (as any Vet would).... if I see ANYTHING moving around, I take that animal straight to a REAL Vet for diagnosis and medication (if any is needed)....

I don't think I am doing anything wrong in the way I wrote this ad (or any ad of mine, for that matter).... If I am shown to be wrong, I ALWAYS change my ad to make it right....Neil

I'm curious again neil. How long has it been your procedure to take those fecals next door to "look at it through the microscope (as any Vet woud)" and are you able to identifiy eggs and egg cases from all the parasites that could possibly be present in animals that come from all over the world?

Wow, that would really take some training. I did take a parasite identification course offered by a reptile vet out here and I was simply AMAZED at the amount of parasites there were and how many different forms some of them took. And sometimes you don't see adults and sometimes you don't see eggs and egg cases together, it's one or the other.

If you can tell if a reptile is parasitically infected just by looking at the feces, not even needing to do a float, you are truly an amazing man.


Matt, the timing is really amazing. Most people take pictures of the eggs and the eggs when they are hatching, after all, as breeders that's the BEST moment of all for most of us.
Wes Pollock

Back to your parasite process neil. What power microscope does your friend's son have? 100X, 400X or what?

Do you do your "fecals" on all the reptiles you get in now or just the ones you get as captive bred like these monitors were supposed to have been?

It's interesting that in ALL our prior dealings you NEVER ONCE mentioned that you do your own "fecals" on the reptiles you sell. It would certainly put your husbandry practices in a MUCH better light if you had made that general knowledge previously.

Wes Pollock

 

[sputnik]

FORGET IT

Raymond Melrose Sr.

Ray, you can ask these questions till you are blue in the face, fact is you won't get a straight forward answer. There is no proof they are captive born and bred, why there is not is beyond my thinking. I'd be documenting it FULLY and I'd be proud of it!

I am done with this thread simply because it's a waste of time trying to get an answer to obvious questions.

Lot's of talk from Matt, but no answers!

 

[Wilomn]

neil, are you not answering the questions below JUST because it's me asking or are you not answering because you got caught lying again? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know the answers.

I really am curious about the parasitic process that you said you use. Can you really just look at a fecal sample under a microscope,not having done a float to separate feces from eggs or egg cases or the parasites themselves, see if there's anything wiggling and make a determination as to whether or not the reptile in question has parasites? I have ALWAYS thought that most parasites were TOO SMALL to see with the naked eye. And with the amount of feces present in the average smear I always had a hard time seeing anything but feces when I was learning how to do fecal checks.

I would really appreciate your clearing up your process for me. Do you do this with all the reptiles you sell? What power microscope do you use. I am GENUINELY curious about your methods.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Neil Gubitz
As far as the fecals go, my buddy next door has a son who's really into biology, and he has a microscope.... I literally take a fecal sample over and *I* look at it through the microscope (as any Vet would).... if I see ANYTHING moving around, I take that animal straight to a REAL Vet for diagnosis and medication (if any is needed)....

I don't think I am doing anything wrong in the way I wrote this ad (or any ad of mine, for that matter).... If I am shown to be wrong, I ALWAYS change my ad to make it right....Neil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wilomn
I'm curious again neil. How long has it been your procedure to take those fecals next door to "look at it through the microscope (as any Vet woud)" and are you able to identifiy eggs and egg cases from all the parasites that could possibly be present in animals that come from all over the world?

Wow, that would really take some training. I did take a parasite identification course offered by a reptile vet out here and I was simply AMAZED at the amount of parasites there were and how many different forms some of them took. And sometimes you don't see adults and sometimes you don't see eggs and egg cases together, it's one or the other.

If you can tell if a reptile is parasitically infected just by looking at the feces, not even needing to do a float, you are truly an amazing man.


Matt, the timing is really amazing. Most people take pictures of the eggs and the eggs when they are hatching, after all, as breeders that's the BEST moment of all for most of us.
Wes Pollock
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Back to your parasite process neil. What power microscope does your friend's son have? 100X, 400X or what?

Do you do your "fecals" on all the reptiles you get in now or just the ones you get as captive bred like these monitors were supposed to have been?

It's interesting that in ALL our prior dealings you NEVER ONCE mentioned that you do your own "fecals" on the reptiles you sell. It would certainly put your husbandry practices in a MUCH better light if you had made that general knowledge previously.

Wes Pollock


__________________
I may not be very smart but, I can lift heavy things.

 

[Wilomn]

Well, I guess it is just me that gubitz won't answer to. Hmmmmm, oh well.

Below is the answer to my question. There is a thread in the General Businees Discussions forum about this but I thought an answer in this thread was important too.

thanks neil


I don't take animals to the Vet unless they are VISUALLY sick or "not doing well".... When I get an animal in-house, the first time it deficates, I take a small amount next door and look at it under the microscope.... it's not perfect, but it works for me.... I don't worry about eggs or floats, but if I SEE anything under the microscope "moving", I will then take that animal to a REAL Vet to see what's up.... If I have that animal for another two weeks, I look at the fecal AGAIN "for anything moving", and then follow my steps above.... It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than most do, and I refuse to spend hundreds of dollars with a Vet....
I'm NOT a Vet, and I know it's not a perfect procedure, but since the incident with Rozann, I have been doing it ever since, just for my own curiosity, if the animal looks healthy, is eating, is "frisky", and shows no outward signs of ill-health, what I do is fine for MY purposes.... sure, there MIGHT be eggs that I don't see, but they obviously haven't hatched yet, and in two weeks down the road, I will look again, etc, etc....

I hope that answers your question, because it's the last you will hear about it from me.... If you don't agree with what I have been doing.... oh well.... it's better than doing nothing??....

Neil [/B][/QUOTE]