Inquiry-Zen Dragonz

[Iguanalady]

Has anyone done business with them...I did a search an came back with zilch. Any input greatly appriciated

 

[jadednightdragon]

This "breeder" does bad business. She is 16 years old and does not take care of her dragons. She takes in rescues and then breeds them or sells them beyond their worth. I'm not talking about good condition rescues, I'm talking about inbreed rescues with severe MBD, or other conditions, some being inherited. I have seen several of her posts inquiring on taking in rescues. I have even received mass e-mails asking for rescues. I have gotten return postings stating for her not to contact them again.

She has admitted to bad care, which led to the death of several babies. She has sold babies with bad MBD and paralysis and refuses to admit there's a problem with her dragons. Pictures of the babies are usually shown in dirty cages, and look under fed and dehydrated.

She does not explain her lines and just says that's what they look like.She has several males with several females producing mixed clutches, she therefore cannot trace her lines correctly. For dragons will retain sperm from several males for up to a year.

When confronted with advise on how to better her condition she doesn't listen. Many experienced breeders have tried to help her and she has taken their advise an twisted it to her own advantage.

~Jade

 

[Iguanalady]

Thanks for the reply Jade. A friend of mine was considering buying a bearded dragon baby with a missing leg. I will definately refer her to this thread.

 

[jadednightdragon]

Not a problem. I have had her tell me once when told her that her prices where to high that "I can charge what I want and nobody seems to care."

~Jade.

 

[herpmasterbj]

actualy iv done buisness with her too!!...... she is very nice, and reasonable. iv seen her dragons, all are in good condish, and not skinny, and they always have water..... just wanted to let yall know

 

[froglady]

Well....I also have done a few business transactions with this lady. She has always been honest about the condition of any rescue that I have adopted and has never charged an outrageous fee. Shipping always raises the price, but that is out of anyones control. She has always been able to give me any information that I have requested. No...I have not been there to see her set up, but I have seen pictures and everything seems fine. If a rescue has severe MBD, it is from the previous owner. Severe MBD does not set up in just a few weeks time. I happens over a course of many months without proper care. I have adopted several handicaps from her and there has never been a problem. She was always honest and forthwright coming with any information.

I do not know if this is a personal issue you have with her or not, but I find her to be very helpful answer questions and though she is a teen, I have never found anything wrong with what I have seen. If you are adopting a rescue, that is exactly what it is.....an animal who has had a not so good life. She is trying to find homes that do want the animals.

That is my .02 worth.

Froglady

 

[starmaidh2o]

I have dealt with her. She plays the innocent and sweet little girl at first. I have tried to help her with much patience and she in turn twists my words and ignores my advise. I have received the mass emailing to rescues for cheap dragons. I have seen the responses too. I know for a fact that she has personally had too many accidents with her dragons and their care. Her breeding practices are young beardies that she doesn't know the lines. She mixes the males around with all females in one season.
I gave her more patience and help than most would do.
Her major interest is trying to make money off animals she can get for cheap and trying to make a profit.
Health and Quality is the most important. It is not for the making of money but the species itself.
I personally believe that anyone under 18 should not be doing online selling of any animals.
Star

 

[jadednightdragon]

Here's some e-mails she massed to over 200 people! I have taken out the e-mail addresses to protect those who were sent it.

----- Original Message -----
From: Rachael Olan
To: ****
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: FOR SALE

Sorry if this doesnt apply to you: Just please delete me/block me if this bothers you.



I sell pets, reptiles mostly and birds. If anyone wants ANYTHING at all, we can talk and i can find you a GREAT animal for a GREAT price!!!


Ask away, my animal contacts are unlimited.

On 12/13/05, **** <***> wrote:

I'm in RESCUE....I do not buy or help sell animals.

----- Original Message -----
From: Rachael Olan
To: *****
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: FOR SALE

DO you have anything for adoption?

----- Original Message -----
From: ****
To: ####
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:14 AM
Subject: Fw: FOR SALE

What the hell? I can't believe this dumb-ass has the nerve to write me back.

Subject: Re: FOR SALE

LOL...Your a damn Joke!


I have the real e-mail if you would like a better copy.

 

[Iguanalady]

So Rachael...where are you...you took the time to send me a PM but you don't have time to come here and tell us your story....What's up with that? A guilty conscience, possibly?...If you don't come here and post, I will post your PM to me!

 

[Chameleon Company]

A few thoughts here, as I requested to put some here by a participating entity. An inquiry was made if anyone knew of Zen Dragons - Rachel. A first response from Long Island made a lot of so-far unsupported and meandering charges about Rachel. Included is this comment that seems to have a misplaced pronoun or two, so I'm not sure if Rachel was saying someone's prices were too high, or reacting to being told her prices were too high?

Quote from Jade:
I have had her tell me once when told her that her prices where to high that "I can charge what I want and nobody seems to care."

We then have another post by a second Long Island individual ..... nothing against people from "Long Gisland" (pronounced guy-land) .... are you two acquaintances ...... that seems in the exact same vein as the first L.I. reply. Broad and unsupported charges, which has to be characterized for now as a lot of opinion without any posted facts. They may be true, but what seems apparent in both posts is that neither poster had a transaction with Rachel, where they received a problem, although one claims to have "dealt" with her ? Then we have two independent posts from people who have had transactions and "dealt" with Rachel, and things are good.

IMO, to feel Rachel has any need to come here and defend herself, or even post for that matter, is without any basis. It is my experience that the best characterizations of whether or not you can trust someone's animals or ethics comes from those with prior experience with that entity. To threaten to post a PM if the writer does not come here also seems a bit of a stretch. Your thread starter was only seeking input about someone whom you had no transaction with, good, bad, or otherwise.

 

[Iguanalady]

well said Jim.....I stand corrected, it seems the two girls with accusations do need to post some evidence, which I know they both have. Okay, girls let's see it.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Seems a mixed bag here Denise. Most all the "posters" here seem to be very new to posting, two with this being their initial post, although they have been members for a while. Unfortunately, I just now noticed that one of the "favorable" posts that I cited, by "Herpmasterbj", was signed off as "beau jangles". Need a real name "beau", as per BOI rules and to give yourself some credibility. You can just sign a post with it if you do not care to change your profile. FrogLady seems credible. As for Rachel, if she truly is 16 years old, I would expect that she makes a few of the "mistakes of youth" in some of her communications, and wouldn't be too quick to condemn her for it. As to her animals ? Hard to draw much of a conclusion. I have always cringed at people using the BOI to make sweeping negative characterizations without backing it up. Perhaps your friend could request references, and follow up on them ? If none are provided, then maybe shop elsewhere. Good luck.

 

[Iguanalady]

Jim, I would do that but.....There seems to be a health problem with some of her dragons and the way they were raised. I did some research after posting here and found this out from not just one or two people. The only way dragons get nips as severe as some of the dragons she is selling is from lack of proper feeding. Out of 128 babies that I have raised this year, I only have 4 or 5 that have slight nips. I had one baby that was biting everyone, once he was singled out I separated him until he got past the biting stage. When there is complete limb loss, it is definately a feeding issue. I have also seen some not so good pictures of her babies. Regardless of her age, this is something that needs to be known if people decide to buy from her basically all they are doing is taking on a rescue. As you know, breeding is a big responsibility. And if kids are going to breed, they need to accept the responsibility for proper care of the animals they produce, especially if they are selling them to people and making money.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Then you have your answer ! I mentioned her age as prism through which to view her word-skills, not her husbandry.

 

[zendragonzowner]

Hello everyone. This is Rachael, the person who Jadednightdreagon (a.k.a. Theresa) has decided to take a personal grudge of some sort against. This has been going on for over a year as I recall. In fact, when I changed screen names to get this "stalker" to leave me alone, she followed me. Is she unbalanced? Perhaps. Has her rambling helped my business. Oddly, yes it has as others who know me or know of me have shown their support.

First, I want everyone to know that I am 17, not sixteen. Jaded, FYI, when a year goes by we have a thing called a birthday and we get a year older.

Am I perfect? Who is? However I have never been cruel to any of my animals. I take great care to keep them healthy, and for those I rescue (Jaded, that's known as doing something kind for unfortunate animals) I have helped them heal and have made them available to others who are also kind and want to take care of them.

Theresa, if this continual attack on my reputation (also know as defamataion of character in legal circles. You know, that legal term that applies to "adults" like you who are 18 or older and can be sued for such an unwarranted public belittling) is what it takes for you to get your "Jollies" then continue to do it. However I am sure the sensible people in this forum know that its a bunch of nonsense, because your reputation precedes you.

From my experience, people that spend their time putting other people down do it beacuse they are extremely insecure or they are trying to deflect a problem that THEY themself do or have done onto someone else to make them less suspect. Now, I'm sure you're response will be defensive Jaded (By the way, you ARE Jaded, look up the definition), because that's what I would expect from someone who is very insecure and obsessed with a situation that they cant let go of. So if that is what you need to do to feel good, I encourage you to continue and you may want to consider seeking some professional help as well.

Everyone else, believe what you want, but I am satisfied, as are the scores of customers I've done business with, that I run a first class operation.

 

[Iguanalady]

First off Rachael.....how can you enter into a sales agreement with anyone when you are only 17? You are a minor and a minor cannot legally enter into contract. That alone would make me not deal with you because I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Second, this thread isn't about Theresa, it is about you. This is not a name calling contest, this is an inquiry into your business practices. Instead of trying to make Theresa or anyone else look bad, only comes back to your ethincs. State situations, state conditions, attacking someone just because they don't agree with how you do something doesn't cut it.

 

[jadednightdragon]

I refuse to address Rachel's ridiculous post on my "psychological standing". I have worked with various rehabbers and vets to know a bad breeder when it comes around. I have the photos and I will be posting them tomorrow. Anyone who takes their time to attack someones mental stat and not support their reputation does not have a good standing with their business, because as you can see Rachel's first statement was against me and not comments from previous customers.

I have spoken to several rescue owners and other breeders about her. I will be urging them to either post here or send me a statement regarding her.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Whether it is in inquiry into her business practices or not does not has not precluded others from making it personal. It was evident, to me at least, that the earlier post by Theresa was full of accusations with no support, and that it was anything but objective. Rachael is under absolutely no obligation to let the cheap and/or unfounded accusations go without a reply. If someone made such a baseless attack against here against any of us, where there was an existing history of a running disagreement or feud, would any of us let it go unanswered? It was not a matter of "someone not agreeing with you" to Rachael. Theresa attacked the business practices and ethics of Rachael in this thread, well beyond what could be supported by anyone except a business partner or sibling, and she was neither, and Theresa provided no evidence, which would have had to have been considerable to support such broad accusations. Rachael has said she is not perfect, and she may even be less perfect than many. But Theresa's attack was way over the top, and Rachael had a duty to herself to reply. Do you doubt her words that they have had an on-running feud? If you want to condemn her for her age, so be it. Many of us have been doing reptile deals since we were far younger than her. If she has the consent of her parents, it is legal in many venues, and since she is likely doing it in their house, they have a legal liability regardless. I'll bet she does their approval, and in any case, its a bit of a red herring here. I am not vouching for Rachaels's husbandry, business prowess, ethics, etc., although I don't see any alarms jumping off the page at me. I do expect her to get a fair shake, and maybe a touch of the golden rule?

 

[venus]

I have bought 7 hatchlings from Rachel recently, all being in good health. Aside from the day to day mess babies make, her tanks are clean and the babies always have water. I have addressed a few things with her and she has always listened to advice.

 

[Iguanalady]

Agreed Jim...neither one of them should have been name calling. I still want to see some evidence posted here. I understand what you mean by being young and into reptiles but completely disagree that someone that young has the time or resources to care properly for babies and breeding. In my own experience, breeding and caring for babies takes alot of time and money. Who feeds the babies when she is at school or out with friends? Who is there to put the gravid female in the nest box at noon? And I would never put water in with babies! Babies will drown in a quick second if left with regular access to water inside their tanks. I bath and mist all of my babies, they never have direct access to water without supervision. I am not against Rachael, just don't really believe that someone that young has the responsibilities to be a breeder, especially with the number of dragons she has been working with. What about the lines? Where did the dragons come from? What are the parent's lines? From the little I have learned (and no I am not talking about Theresa), Rachael did not carefully breed her bearded dragons. I agree, none of us are perfect, we all make mistakes! But there is a big difference between making mistakes and being careless or inexperienced. Rachael, your babies got those severe nips because you didn't feed them enough or were not there to give them the late morning feeding. Your enthusiasm is commendable but I believe you got into dragons and breeding long before you should have....JMHO