Bad Guy BEWARE OF PIJAC!!!!

[varnyard]

Yea, that’s right, they are scum. They are selling us out, don't be fooled, they are saying yes to HR669:
http://www.pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28

Do not support these liars, they are having secret meetings with HSUS and PETA right now, they want to save their own ass and put the rest of us out of business.

This started in 2003:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27154&highlight=NRIP

If you donated funds or joined PIJAC, demand your money back now, they are using YOUR money to fund them to keep their doors open in the trade. They are not fighting for you, and it is a lie.

BOYCOTT these so-called big breeders behind this group, do not buy the animals they have for sale, it will only support them in the quest to be the only breeders of reptiles in the US.

TOM_CRUTCHFIELD: I believe that a NEW version of this bill HR669 will be introduced very soon. After a LOT of searching both online and orally, I believe that NRIP will be the compromise offered by some in OUR OWN INDUSTRY. This stands for National Reptile Improvement Plan, and THIS IS NOT GOOD for the average Herper.

I would like to go on record as saying I'M OPPOSED TO NRIP AND EVERYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH IT. This would "white list" certain species to be bred under certain conditions and only financially benefit some "snake and gecko mills" and not allow for investment herp breeders or Joe Herper who breeds a few herps he likes and sells offspring to finance his hobby.

While this bill could very well benefit me, I WILL NOT DESERT MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THIS INDUSTRY FOR MY PERSONAL GAIN!!! NRIP has been secretly in the works for over two years, and I don't believe in coincidences. I'm enclosing a link and would encourage all of you to read it and decide for yourselves. NRIP even casts a bad light on internet sales and reptile shows.

I woke up this morning and feel like I'm in the old Pogo Comic Strip where one of them says "I have met the enemy, and he is us." All of this seems to about some making a LOT OF MONEY, but then most things are about money.

Hang on you rodent breeders, there is a "NATIONAL RODENT IMPROVEMENT PLAN" out there that will have similar consequences. Thanks for reading this.
NRIP MEETING
Tom Crutchfield

"NATIONAL RODENT IMPROVEMENT PLAN"???

Bill Brant: April 30, 2009
Hello Fellow Herpers,
In recent days there have been many comments on topics related to HR669, so I decided to make a few of my own. If you care to, please forward this letter on to others as food for thought. My name is Bill Brant, and my wife and I own The Gourmet Rodent. I have been on the board of directors for the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC) since March, 2003. I have also represented the Reptile Industry in Florida on the Animal Industry Technical Council (AITC), an advisory council to the Commissioner of Agriculture for the state of Florida.
In recent months our industry has been involved in several high profile pieces of federal legislation, HR669 and S373. HR669 has gotten more attention in recent months because it just came before the House Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife, but make no mistake, S373 as well as other issues threaten our emerging industry.
I have been encouraged by the outpouring of responses that preceded the hearing on HR669, however I have been saddened and somewhat confused by the responses I have seen on several of the forums by the leadership in the industry.
My confusion is because many posts indicate that HR669 is dead in the water. To my knowledge, that is not the case. At the end of the hearing, Rep. Bordallo stated that there would be a ten day comment period. I have seen nothing official that states anything other than the bill is still in progress, (http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/index.php?option=com_jcalpro&Itemid=60&extmode=view&extid=246).
Even if it is going to undergo a significant revision, or a re-write, I believe our industry should offer to help come to a reasonable compromise, rather than dig our heels in and take the position of no compromise. If we do that, we may find out that we are in the minority, and get out voted. I also think it is unwise to prematurely claim victory at this point in time. We may have gotten their attention, and earned their respect for having garnered so much grassroots support, however to “crow” about victory prematurely could cause them to take a more unyielding position when it comes down to the compromises they are willing to concede to.
I am saddened by the misinformation that is abundant in recent posts on forums. Especially when it comes to the intent and impact of the National Reptile Improvement Plan (NRIP). To understand its intent, you need to understand its inception. It came about as a result of the “Tick Symposium” held in July 2000 in Tallahassee, FL. The Tick meeting came about because regulators in the Florida Department of Agriculture and the US Department of Agriculture were responding to the “Heartwater Scare” of 1999. Ticks carrying the bacterium that causes Heartwater Disease, a very fatal disease for ruminant animals such as cattle, sheep and deer, were found on imported Leopard Tortoises. At the time, FDOACS and USDA had no idea who the reptile industry was, so they sponsored the symposium to see who would show up.
PIJAC and many concerned herpers showed up to try to limit the action of USDA and FDOACS to just the reptiles that could be carrying the vector ticks. It became apparent at the symposium that our industry would need Best Management Practices and Standard Operating Procedures in order to have credibility in the eyes of our regulators. That is the reason why NRIP was drafted, not to create an elite group of larger reptile dealers andbreeders. It took three years, and was open to anyone who showed an interest in participating in the process. We welcomed all the help we could get.
In June 2008, we convened a group of interested herpers at the PIJAC office in Washington, DC to review the NRIP document for potential amendments. One of the topics we addressed was making the program more user friendly for smaller reptile breeders of all types, sizes and descriptions. Most importantly, I want to emphasize that it is PIJAC’s desire to have NRIP be a voluntary program. I think it is interesting to see the similarity between the “code of ethics” of NCARK (the precursor of USARK) , and the NRIP program. Please take time to check them out.( http://www.ncark.org/ethics.php) (http://pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28).
A final reason why I am saddened is the seeming rivalry between USARK and PIJAC. I suspect that this is the result of one being a forty year old organization, and the other being a one year old organization. I am a member of both organizations, and urge you to do the same. They both have something to add to our common cause. USARK is young and reptile specific. PIJAC is seasoned and has been the “go to” resource for regulators and legislators for decades. As far as I can tell, the desired outcome of both organizations is to have a workable set of regulations that enable people to pursue their passion for reptiles while providing protection for the environment, public health and safeguards for people in our communities that don’t share our enthusiasm for reptiles. ( PIJAC’s position on HR669 is included here: http://pijac.org/governmentaffairs/hr669forum.asp ) I think our interests would be better served if we focused on solving the legislative challenges we all face in a unified manner. Please consider what I have said. I look forward to seeing many of you at the Daytona Expo, or the NARBC shows that I attend.
Sincerely,
Bill Brant
The Gourmet Rodent

We are being sold out folks, BHB, Bill Brant, PIJAC, PETA, and HSUS are all in together. BTW, nice videos Brian, too bad it was all a lie.

I called Brian to confront him about this, but he did not have enough balls to take my call.

If you dontated money or joined PIJAC, get you money back now, that is one way we can stop them, also do not buy animals from them, they are using your dollars to screw all of us!!

I will be adding to that list as I find out more.

 

[cahrens]

I purchased a membership from PIJAC last year when I believed them to be on our side. This is certainly not what I was paying for. That membership just ran out and all of this has made it a no-brainer not to renew. When you buy a membership like this what you are really paying for is representation. At this time, I don't feel as though I got what I paid for.

 

[Joe Hiduke]

Great Transaction with PIJAC

I gave PIJAC money for membership and I received compelling testimony in front of Congress that was opposed to HR669 and argued against any white list for the pet trade.

In the interest of full disclosure, I worked for Bill Brant for ten years, most of that time as his general manager. I quit in 2003, and talk to him maybe a couple times a year, so I don’t have any vested interest in any program that is specifically to his benefit. I currently work in the tropical fish industry; my current involvement with reptiles is strictly as a hobbyist.

What exactly has transpired that has led to a six-year-old document for a voluntary program targeted to prevent the spread of reptile ticks known to be vectors of Heartwater disease being dragged out and misrepresented as favoring a white list? Can you provide a link or any evidence that PIJAC has changed their position on a white list?

Specifically regarding the NRIP document, have you read this? It’s not an easy read, but this was crafted so that it would not be too difficult for anyone to come in to compliance with this document. Furthermore, the intent of the document is to provide guidelines for a voluntary organization. Can you provide evidence that this is likely to be proposed as law? If it were being looked at to replace HR669 what do you see in this document that shows any kind of restrictions on which species that can worked with? What does this do to regulate trade in tropical fish, birds, and exotic animals, which are also targets of HR669 (tropical fish even more so than reptiles)? What response have you received from Marshal Meyers, Bill Brant, Kamuran Tepedelen, or anyone else at PIJAC that this document is not subject to change if they received input from the reptile community that we wanted this document to be more widely adopted?

PIJAC has been working to protect our interests for many years. If PIJAC comes out in support of a white list than I will consider my membership dues poorly spent and a bad transaction. Rather than relying on hearsay and conjecture about motives, I will base my opinion of PIJAC on their long history of looking out for our industry.

Joe Hiduke

 

[varnyard]

HR669 is not dead; we were told it was by PIJAC and USARK. The fact of the matter is, it is alive and well, it is being re-written and is going to be re-submitted this month. The new and improved HR669 will go something like this:

Small breeders will not be able to breed, sell, trade, import, export, or ship any reptiles. Only larger breeders that have an on the premises herp vet will be able to do so. Also USDA and USFW must inspect them and approve the facility, caging, care etc. The animals produced will only be shipped to pet stores, zoos and animal education facilities.

As for a response, we are not getting one; PIJAC, and USARK are not telling us the bill is still alive, why? I called one of the top board members at PIJAC; he knows what is going on, he said I was the first one to call him about it. He said he knows the bill is not dead and it is being re-written.

Do not let your guard down; there is much yet to be seen on this. PETA, USPS and PIJAC are now discussing the new HR669.

The "NATIONAL RODENT IMPROVEMENT PLAN" is still in the works, it will be slid through after HR669 passes, and it will pass.

 

[varnyard]

USPS = HSUS, sorry but this pisses me off to the core.

 

[Joe Hiduke]

The new and improved HR669 will go something like this:

Small breeders will not be able to breed, sell, trade, import, export, or ship any reptiles. Only larger breeders that have an on the premises herp vet will be able to do so. Also USDA and USFW must inspect them and approve the facility, caging, care etc. The animals produced will only be shipped to pet stores, zoos and animal education facilities.

Link?

HR669 is not dead; we were told it was by PIJAC and USARK.

I don't see anyone from PIJAC claiming HR669 is dead. In fact, I see you have posted a letter from a PIJAC board member clearly stating that it is not dead.

Joe Hiduke

 

[varnyard]

Joe you want a link to what? Phone conversations?
You will not see it until the new improved HR669 comes out, that's the way they want it.

Call your buddy Bill, and see if he will be honest with you.

 

[varnyard]

Is it not a fact Joe, that you was involved with NRIP drafts several years ago? And you are working with the ones I speak of?

Simple questions Joe.

 

[BryonsBoas]

I'm not a member of either PIJAC or USARK but I have seen letters posted by both on another forum stating that the bill is not dead and to keep our guard up.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

HR669 is not dead; we were told it was by PIJAC and USARK. The fact of the matter is, it is alive and well, it is being re-written and is going to be re-submitted this month. The new and improved HR669 will go something like this:

I recall getting at least one Email from USARK stating that it had been defeated in it's current form but could be resubmitted for approval. I don't save those Emails but I do remember the content.

Small breeders will not be able to breed, sell, trade, import, export, or ship any reptiles. Only larger breeders that have an on the premises herp vet will be able to do so. Also USDA and USFW must inspect them and approve the facility, caging, care etc. The animals produced will only be shipped to pet stores, zoos and animal education facilities.

I believe what Joe is asking is where you got this very specific information? It sounds as if you read a draft of the new proposal or spoke with someone who has. I would be curious on the source as well

As for a response, we are not getting one; PIJAC, and USARK are not telling us the bill is still alive, why? I called one of the top board members at PIJAC; he knows what is going on, he said I was the first one to call him about it. He said he knows the bill is not dead and it is being re-written.

Do not let your guard down; there is much yet to be seen on this. PETA, USPS and PIJAC are now discussing the new HR669.

I don't think any of us thought that those that support HR669 in the Govenment were simply going to give up and go home after this first defeat. That's like assuming when gun control legislation is defeated that no one will ever submit a revised bill for consideration. Some level of regulation is a foregone conclusion in our industry. My understanding of NRIP was that it was being designed as an initial step at self regulation by the industry to demonstate a desire to better standards and practuices. If you read it, nothing in there is really too difficult to conform with. There has not been anything secretive about it's drafting. It has been common knowledge for several years in the industry.

I have known Bill Brandt almost as long Joe has and he has been a tireless and dedicated proponent of our hobby and industry for the last twenty years. To attempt to label him "scum" without some really damning evidence of wrongdoing is way over the top

The "NATIONAL RODENT IMPROVEMENT PLAN" is still in the works, it will be slid through after HR669 passes, and it will pass.

I'd be interested in knowing if your only evidence of this is the quote you placed from Tom Crutchfield.

 

[varnyard]

Andrew Wyatt: USARK doesn't pretend to know what the position of others is on an HR669 type bill. But let me make our position very clear... USARK is strongly opposed to any compromise that involves a "White List" that will negatively impact the types of animals that can be worked with. We are also strongly opposed to any Federal Permit system to limit "who" can work with certain animals. Any proposals that involve either of these concepts will be opposed in the strongest possible terms by the Reptile Nation.
-----
Andrew Wyatt
President USARK

USARK is on our side as far as I can tell, I cannot say the same about PIJAC.

 

[varnyard]

Call him John, if you know him that well, see if he will be honest with you. All I am looking for is the truth, I am like everyone else, if I am getting screwed, I want to know about it.

Joe was involved with NRIP drafts for years, he came here to blow a smoke screen in this thread. He could have been honest and told the truth about being involved with the NRIP drafts, but chose not to. Why?

IMO, he has a dog in that fight, maybe he can clear this up.

PIJAC/NRIP: The trade in field-collected (native and non-native species) and captive-bred and reared reptile and amphibian species involves a variety of activities, including import/export, captive breeding, wholesale distribution, sale and ownership by individuals, zoological organizations and research institutions. The trade involves international and domestic movement of a wide variety of species of turtles, tortoises, lizards, snakes, and other reptilians and amphibians. These species have commercial, recreational, cultural and aesthetic values to diverse components of society.

The movement of such animals, if not properly managed, can cause the dispersal of ticks or other unwanted ectoparasites that accompany the specimens (field-collected or captive-bred and reared) being traded or introduced into captive breeding facilities. Absent the establishment of Best Management Practices and Standard Operating Procedures, facilities engaged in import, export, distribution or captive breeding may unintentionally cause the introduction and spread of unwanted ectoparasites that may be injurious to the host animals, other animals within or outside the facility, humans, or the environment.

It is well recognized that interest in the reptile trade and hobby is increasing and it provides a livelihood and enjoyment for many commercial businesses, and hobby and individual pet owners. Concerned members of the reptile trade and the reptile hobby recognize that the responsible management of reptilian and amphibian species benefits not only their activities, but also a far broader stakeholder community, such as agriculture and public health.

To meet these goals, a group of concerned members of the reptile/amphibian trade and hobby met with representatives of the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) and Florida's Department of Agriculture to ascertain how myriad stakeholders could work cooperatively to minimize the risk of Reptile-associated tick infestations, which are potentially injurious to agriculture and animal and human health, to increase public education and awareness, to implement voluntary standards, and to coordinate activities with appropriate regulatory agencies.

Following that meeting, the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC) convened meetings in Florida to evaluate the feasibility of developing Best Management Practices (BMP) that would, among other things, provide a set of standards, most of which would be included in written Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) developed by individual participants as part of a voluntary compliance program that is designed to minimize the risk of the introduction of unwanted parasites or other identified organisms into the United States or the dispersal of such organisms among the states. Each participant would adopt written SOPs customized to meet the specific operations of each facility to ensure that the Plan's Best Management Practices have been implemented and are followed.

The National Reptile Improvement Plan (NRIP), a program to improve practices of persons involved in importation, sale or captive breeding of reptilian and amphibian species, was designed by individuals with expertise in importing, captive breeding, retail store operations, entomology, and veterinary medicine. The Plan is aimed at minimizing the risk of international or interstate movement of reptiles causing harm to the reptiles, livestock or the environment. Participation in the Plan is voluntary and available for persons that meet or exceed NRIP standards. The NRIP is designed to provide a cooperative Industry-State-Federal program that is a self-directed, self-regulated program that includes adoption and implementation of Best Management Practices, a quality assurance program, and independent verification through periodic inspections. While the Plan involves self-regulation, it works in cooperation with and under the guidance and approval of USDA-APHIS-VS and appropriate state authorities.

Download National Reptile Improvement Plan



NRIP Structure

NRIP is not a private business. It is established as a function of a subcommittee of PIJAC, a non-profit trade association representing all segments of the pet industry in the United States. NRIP is designed to be of benefit to those involved with reptiles while at the same time safeguarding American livestock and agriculture.
Initially, PIJAC will provide the requisite infrastructure and staff support. Depending on NRIP's acceptance and areas of activity, PIJAC may establish a separate corporate entity to provide the services associated with implementation and maintenance of the Plan.
Every plan participant shall be required to obtain all necessary permits, licenses, or other authorizations required by federal and/or state law.
Participation in the Plan is voluntary and open to any person, business or other entity that desires to participate and comply with the standards set forth herein.
NRIP will meet annually for discourse, inquiry and investigation into better methods of handling, shipping, housing and husbandry.
As stated above, NRIP Accreditation is based upon a Plan Participant's adherence to the standards contained in the program. Accreditation is achieved through self-regulation and inspection that may be verified by a veterinarian, or a state department of agriculture and/or the United States Department of Agriculture veterinarian with an understanding in the handling and care of reptiles and amphibians.

The NRIP performance-based standards are prepared under the direction of the Reptile and Amphibian Subcommittee of the Governmental Affairs Committee of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. These standards are subject to a broad and inclusive stakeholder review and consultation process both within and outside of PIJAC's membership.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

NRIP will be an OPT IN program.

 

[varnyard]

I am calling out these big breeders involved in PIJAC, I want BHB, or the Sutherlands, or any of the rest of the top board members at PIJAC to come here with the truth about this.

Why are they not telling us anything? I want answers, and I want to know what side of the fence they are on. IMO, that is not too much to ask.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

This is what i posted on BP.net about this program.

" I simply wont agree because i personally feel the fee to be a member, to register for the program, and to be acredited is FAR TOO HIGH. Sorry But The hobbyists will be turned away because of this, and i wont support it with those fees as they stand.

Good idea. Dont gouge me for money. It goes towards my animals and my state first and foremost ( if i wanted to have certain permits for species here) .

The application fee is $10.00
"Fees
3.2.1
Accreditation Application Fee shall be paid at the time the application is submitted. The Accreditation Application Fee is applicable to the entity seeking accreditation and is not assessed on a per unit basis if the applicant has multiple locations. The fee schedule is:
a) For PIJAC members, $100
b) For non-PIJAC members, $175
3.2.2
Annual Fees:
In addition to the payment of the initial Application Fee, Participants shall pay an Annual Fee based upon the type of facility as follows:
3.2.2.1 Breeders a) PIJAC member: $100 b) Non-PIJAC members: $200
3.2.2.2 Importers, Wholesalers and Distributors a) PIJAC Members: $200 b) Non-PIJAC members: $350
3.2.2.3 Pet Retailer a) PIJAC member Single store: $50 b) PIJAC Member Multiple stores: $50 for each store for the first 6 units and $10 per unit for each additional unit. C) Non-PIJAC members single store: $100 d) Non-PIJAC Member Multiple stores: $20
3.2.2.4 Event Sponsors: a) PIJAC member $100 b) PIJAC member $200"

http://pijac.org/_documents/nripadoptfinal.pdf Thats the whole document.
The Pijac fees are as follows for an "Affiliate"
"Please check the dues level that best suits your business.
Business Type Dues
Salesperson $55
Veterinarians
Individuals/Single clinic $55 per vet or $100/clinic
Multi-unit clinics $550 + $25/clinic
Hobbyist $50
Allied Industries $550
Clubs & Societies $100"
__________________"

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90662&highlight=NRIP
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90487&highlight=NRIP

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Bobby I and probably 20 other breeders in the industry reviewed and commented and offerred suggestions on early drafts of NRIP several years ago. Joe did have a lot to do with those early drafts. The tick issue was big springboard for the legislators and NRIP, as I said earlier, was an effort to demonstrate self regulation by the industry. The quote you placed from Bill in your first post plainly states his agenda. I don't need to call him. It is ll there to read and i support every single sentance.

As i said earlier, some level of regulation is a foregone conclusion. It's going to happen...plain and simple. The only question is do we simply keep offering resistance to any sort of regulation, a tactic which is doomed to fail/ Or do we, as an industry, offer an alternative, more industry friendly solution? That is the purpose of NRIP.

The question comes down to a choice between a little or a whole lot of regulation. No regulation at all is no longer a viable choice.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I am calling out these big breeders involved in PIJAC, I want BHB, or the Sutherlands, or any of the rest of the top board members at PIJAC to come here with the truth about this.

Why are they not telling us anything? I want answers, and I want to know what side of the fence they are on. IMO, that is not too much to ask.

You can get your answers from the PDF file in my post previous to this. Its NOT the "new HR669" It is an Opt in program. Noone is being FORCED to join. As Adam told me on one of the threads i also linked to on BP.net, Send Pijac your concerns in a polite manner, let them know WHY you do not agree with this program, and what they can do to change it.

People freaking out about this stuff will not get stuff done. Knowing the facts and talking to the people who are in charge/involved WILL.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I'm not a member of either PIJAC or USARK but I have seen letters posted by both on another forum stating that the bill is not dead and to keep our guard up.

The only thing that was dead, was the bill in the first form it was introduced. It is now being reviewed and rewritten, it seems, and will be introduced again. We just have to watch and wait.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

This is what i posted on BP.net about this program.

" I simply wont agree because i personally feel the fee to be a member, to register for the program, and to be acredited is FAR TOO HIGH. Sorry But The hobbyists will be turned away because of this, and i wont support it with those fees as they stand.

Good idea. Dont gouge me for money. It goes towards my animals and my state first and foremost ( if i wanted to have certain permits for species here) .

The application fee is $10.00
"Fees
3.2.1
Accreditation Application Fee shall be paid at the time the application is submitted. The Accreditation Application Fee is applicable to the entity seeking accreditation and is not assessed on a per unit basis if the applicant has multiple locations. The fee schedule is:
a) For PIJAC members, $100
b) For non-PIJAC members, $175
3.2.2
Annual Fees:
In addition to the payment of the initial Application Fee, Participants shall pay an Annual Fee based upon the type of facility as follows:
3.2.2.1 Breeders a) PIJAC member: $100 b) Non-PIJAC members: $200
3.2.2.2 Importers, Wholesalers and Distributors a) PIJAC Members: $200 b) Non-PIJAC members: $350
3.2.2.3 Pet Retailer a) PIJAC member Single store: $50 b) PIJAC Member Multiple stores: $50 for each store for the first 6 units and $10 per unit for each additional unit. C) Non-PIJAC members single store: $100 d) Non-PIJAC Member Multiple stores: $20
3.2.2.4 Event Sponsors: a) PIJAC member $100 b) PIJAC member $200"

http://pijac.org/_documents/nripadoptfinal.pdf Thats the whole document.
The Pijac fees are as follows for an "Affiliate"
"Please check the dues level that best suits your business.
Business Type Dues
Salesperson $55
Veterinarians
Individuals/Single clinic $55 per vet or $100/clinic
Multi-unit clinics $550 + $25/clinic
Hobbyist $50
Allied Industries $550
Clubs & Societies $100"
__________________"

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90662&highlight=NRIP
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90487&highlight=NRIP

Alicia

I agree that the fee structure is two burdensome on the small hobbyist. Everyone needs to step back and realize that the program is not yet in place. The current structure is a draft that can be amended and reworked as needed. Sending your comments to PIJAC in a civil and professional manner will undoubtedly have a much more favorable effect than simply attacking the large names in the industry with no evidence will as was done in the first post on this thread

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You can get your answers from the PDF file in my post previous to this. Its NOT the "new HR669" It is an Opt in program. Noone is being FORCED to join. As Adam told me on one of the threads i also linked to on BP.net, Send Pijac your concerns in a polite manner, let them know WHY you do not agree with this program, and what they can do to change it.

People freaking out about this stuff will not get stuff done. Knowing the facts and talking to the people who are in charge/involved WILL.

I see you reached the same conclusion while i was typing