Bad Guy Baltazaar2010 / Albert Bazaar took payment and never shipped animals

[Lucille]

LOL, you think putting something in writing with this type of person would make any difference ?

I do think so, PayPal and other means of payment put great store in a contested case by written deals.
Plus, future possible customers look at both sides and screen shots are good proof. Without screen shots the other party can simply deny everything, although in this case I suspect possible future buyers may decide not to do business with Albert because of his childish demeanor.

It would be great if Fauna or someone could just make a list of those to avoid for a quick reference rather than searching through a bunch of threads. I'm sure that would drastically cut down on people being taken.

Lists and videos have been proposed and tried, but could turn out to be a legal liability for the lister putting names on a 'Bad Guy' list. If you look at the BOI in depth you will see time and time again. Bad Guys posts that turn out after a while to be bogus based on additional information not posted at first.
Far better to search the actual threads where the reader can weigh opinion and decide on the weight to give it. Sone of the reptiles in question are very expensive, so a proposed transaction is well worth spending some time reading the threads here about a particular buyer or seller.

 

[Lucille]

It would just be another Ty Parks case ... taking forever to get a refund - if ever - going the legal route.

Trying to get everything in writing, and forming a legal contract, is pretty basic in law and those who make deals should do their best to get everything in writing so that the terms and agreements are easily available for onlookers should their be later issues with the transaction. Verbal contracts are legal (with some exceptions) but are more difficult to prove. And proof helps in obtaining the results one wants.

This is not really the place to discuss the Ty thread in depth, but sometimes the wheels of justice grind slowly. However, in the Ty thread others have come forward with their own experiences, and relevant to this thread, I believe that many readers after reading that thread will take it into account in the future and I certainly believe that readers will take this thread into account should they ever see an advertisement for a reptile sold by Albert.

 

[markpulawski]

Mark sorry you are going through this but I would think buying animals coming out of water during the winter may see weather related delays, especially with the severe cold we have seen every where over the last month or so. Usually when people start talking scammer, 4 or 5 more people come out of the woodwork and tell of their negative never get my money back experience with the "scammer", this has not happened. I myself had a great experience with Al on day geckos, paid and received young adult animals, packed well, sexed correctly and in prime breeding shape when they arrived. I know of several other people who got great animals on time in smooth transactions, hopefully they will post their experiences with Albert as well.
All of our experiences came during the summer when weather was more cooperative and could be managed and our animals came out of cages kept indoors so he knew what he actually had on hand. Reading what he said about hey I don't have enough females for you here and need to go collect and then seeing the weather he must have encountered while trying to collect all seem like pretty reasonable and believable excuses. Not sending your $$ back yet or advertising animals he was not sure he had is bad but going to collect animals a few hundred miles away to make sure you got what you ordered doesn't say scammer to me, sounds more like someone wanting to satisfy a customer and make sure they were happy.
It seems you and I are the only 2 who have actually had experiences with Al who have posted, it would be nice for a few others to show but I for one will be ordering from Al again, he did great by me and I am fully confident that I will get the same treatment on future orders.

 

[marku1999]

Mark,

Glad to hear you did't lose your money or get screwed around like I have.
The agreement was not for him to go collect animals. The agreement was for him to sell me animals he had on hand.
The first delay was food poisoning, will ship next week.
The following week, it was too cold, his pipes froze, will ship the following week.
The third week he was supposed to ship, he finally discovered he didn't have enough females in his tubs. He would go get some from his pools.
After almost another whole week, he decides that's too much effort ( to get a couple females from his pools that he has already had payment for nearly a month), he will go collecting (at which time I asked him to send what he had, he refused saying he would go collect fresh pretty ones - which I didn't ask for). He also said he couldn't take the ones he had on the road to ship when he caught more because they are protected in the surrounding states. However; when he didn't find enough collecting, he said he would have to take the ones he did find into Florida to go collecting there. At which time he offered me mangrove diamondbacks. I asked for a refund and he agreed. Finally saying the water was cold and cloudy it would be hard to get any.

But, HE AGREED TO REFUND THE MONEY since he didn't have the animals, now refuses to do so.

I stand by what I said, I believe he doesn't have the money to refund me.
You can think what you want, and feel free to send him your money. I prefer to deal with people who follow through on what they say, and don't act like a completely different person between conversations or emails. He agreed to a refund on the phone now refuses to it.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Not sending your $$ back yet or advertising animals he was not sure he had is bad but going to collect animals a few hundred miles away to make sure you got what you ordered doesn't say scammer to me, sounds more like someone wanting to satisfy a customer and make sure they were happy.

When a customer asks for a refund, you send it. THAT would've made this customer HAPPY.

Delays happen, that is not the OP's issue; the issue is, the seller did not have the animals he advertised and when the buyer asked for a refund, it was never sent.

As a seller, you should never spend the money sent for animals until the customer has them and is happy, for this exact reason.

The seller may not be a scammer exactly, but as it stands, he is a thief. He has the OPs money and sent no turtles.

 

[markpulawski]

I agree Albert should send a refund at this point however if he were a scammer he would have sent the animals he had on hand, sexed properly or not. A thief is when someone intentionally steals something, I don't believe Albert went into this deal looking to take money and not send animals but it is obvious this deal has gone sideways. He should have refunded you as soon as he found it he did not have the sex ratio of animals you requested with the caveat that he could collect and soon have the 2.4 or whatever ratio you were looking for and you could buy them when he was sure he had what you wanted.
I am defending Albert because I and several friends had great transactions with him on really hard to get animals, should he refund your money immediately based on where this has gone, a resounding yes, hopefully he will resolve and diffuse this soon.

 

[Webuildart]

I’ve dealt with Albert on many occasions. Receiving multiple shipments of various animals. To the tune of about $5k.
Sometimes a delay but I always came out on top. Plus every animal I’ve received has been flawless.
I always knew he had me and the animals best interest in mind.
But I’m a patient and understanding person.
Give him time. I’m certain he’ll make it right.

 

[Snake-Queen]

It's nice that y'all have had good experiences with Albert, the OP has not.

Albert has had plenty of time to make it right, yet has not. Anyone who keeps the money and sends no animal is a thief, plain and simple.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Also, did either of you READ Albert's email to Mark? Is that how a business man is supposed to reply to someone, regardless of how he feels about Mark.

 

[jusmebabee]

’
But I’m a patient and understanding person.

Is your implication that the OP isn't a kind or understanding person??
Personally I'm not giving you 4 weeks to give my money back. I'm contacting my CCC or whatever my payment method was.
What's typical in this situation is that until he screws you over he's a good guy. And that is how scammers/thieves/crooks stay in business. There's always enough kind and understanding people to keep lining their pockets.

 

[Lucille]

Personally I'm not giving you 4 weeks to give my money back. I'm contacting my CCC or whatever my payment method was.

I agree with Joel, start the process. Note that in most of the processes involving payment systems there is always a few days before the hammer falls where the other party can fulfill his obligations and pay up and there will be no penalty.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

 

[markpulawski]

Snake Queen if Albert went to collect the animals to fill the order and still intends to ship the animals does that make him a thief even though he has not had time to complete the transaction? I never saw anything in writing from Albert saying he would refund Marks $$, only that he did not have what Mark wanted and was going to collect and that based on freezing temps was having difficulty doing so, he also mentioned seeing Mark had filed a claim after he had gone on the road to collect the animals and based on losing his phone had difficulty contacting Mark. You say he is a thief because he did not ship animals, would it have been better for Albert to ship 6.0 to Mark instead of attempting to come up with the 2.4 he requested?
Since Albert never sent Mark anything I am sure paypal will side with him and he will get a refund but anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

 

[Lucille]

anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

Anyone selling animals in the middle of winter should realize that as well. These days everyone has a cell phone, one can borrow one or buy one without much trouble. Had there been better communication things might have been different. Then again, considering the tenor of the seller....

 

[markpulawski]

Anyone selling animals in the middle of winter should realize that as well. These days everyone has a cell phone, one can borrow one or buy one without much trouble. Had there been better communication things might have been different. Then again, considering the tenor of the seller....

I agree completely, as for the tenor of the seller, Dale Carnegie he is not, probably crabby from diving in the 40 degree water trying to find those turtles.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I agree completely, as for the tenor of the seller, Dale Carnegie he is not, probably crabby from diving in the 40 degree water trying to find those turtles.

Why not just say, "I do not have the sex you requested like I thought, I've refunded your money."? Who collects turtles in the winter?

 

[BlueCrowned]

Snake Queen if Albert went to collect the animals to fill the order and still intends to ship the animals does that make him a thief even though he has not had time to complete the transaction? I never saw anything in writing from Albert saying he would refund Marks $$, only that he did not have what Mark wanted and was going to collect and that based on freezing temps was having difficulty doing so, he also mentioned seeing Mark had filed a claim after he had gone on the road to collect the animals and based on losing his phone had difficulty contacting Mark. You say he is a thief because he did not ship animals, would it have been better for Albert to ship 6.0 to Mark instead of attempting to come up with the 2.4 he requested?
Since Albert never sent Mark anything I am sure paypal will side with him and he will get a refund but anyone buying animals in the middle of winter better realize that delays may occur.

what would have been best is not taking the customer's money if he did not have the products the customer was paying for, end of story. he should have checked on that before accepting any payment.

 

[predators]

What I read time and time again on this board is the difference in thinking between the
reptile wholesaler/collector and the retail customer. A retail customer thinks, I ordered something paid for it and it should arrive tomorrow. (Something like how Amazon operates). The wholesaler knows, this is a live animal. Delays because of weather, availability, a delayed incoming import shipment, etc are all par for the course and should be tolerated by the buyer. This is not an iphone bought on amazon.
There is quite a disconnect between the two parties and way of thinking. Additionally a retail customer expects that since this is a living thing and is going to be a pet many times the expectation exceeds reality. Color, length, age, etc may not match expectations.
There are some companies out there that are trying to sell animals like Amazon sells products. Online ordering, and fast shipping. Im impressed with how far some companies have come in their attempt to succeed but, it will never be a seamless process.
I know Al and, you have to kind of understand his thinking and humor. He is a unique guy and has an old school attitude towards the business. I certainly understand the OP's frustration in this situation and after four weeks of waiting he deserves a refund if he wants one. period! Under any circumstance he has waited long enough. I am not saying the retail customer's thinking is wrong or right or the wholesalers. I am simply stating that most issues are caused because of the different ways of thinking

 

[marku1999]

Dan & Mark,

I am afraid there has been a misunderstanding.
This is not a disconnect between a retail customer's expectations, and wholesaler's terms of having to collect the animals.

He stated the animals were in his possession and were to be shipped out upon receiving payment. I paid for the animals, and then was given a series of excuses why they were not shipped. This went on for more than a month.

Dec 11th I paid for the animals with expectations the animals would ship on the 13 (see attached).
Dec 13 comes and the animals did not ship, he said he had food poisoning.
Dec 18th (The week of) he said (by phone) it was too cold to ship.
Dec 27th he said he didn't have females in his stock tanks for sale, but said in the 3rd email that he pulled them from his pools (his personal breeding stock per a phone conversation)!
Dec 31 was the first time I heard he had to collect the animals I had already paid for. I was never given an exact reason why he couldn't ship the animals he claimed to have pulled from his pools on the 27th. Maybe having to do with the cold weather there, but what would you make think you would have better luck collecting from the wild when it's this cold?
I waited 12 more days before requesting a refund on January 11th (by phone) which he agreed to. He then ignored me, insulted me in the email, and tried to intimidate me by saying he would see me at the reptile shows.

I have been in and around this business for more than 20 years now and I understand delays happen, but this was different and way to excessive. As time went on it just became more and more apparent that he indeed did NOT have the animals he promised me.

I am glad everyone did not have to go through what I did. Had Albert taken 2 minutes to login to PayPal and click refund we would not be having this discussion. However; he did not and I had to go through PayPal to get my refund.

I thought others should know what I went through.

Thanks to everyone who posted (please take a moment to view the attached images and line them up with timeline above in the message to confirm what I have said).

 

[BlueCrowned]

Yeah this has nothing to do with any kind of disconnect... The seller just blatantly lied about what he had available and took the buyer's money for animals that did not exist.

 

[markpulawski]

Mark I am glad you got your money back, reading his posts it seems there is something missing about pulling the females from his ponds, is this all of the correspondence between you 2, it just seems like there should be more. I never condone threats, I can imagine that was a knee jerk reaction to your BOI post and when some one makes a living off of selling animals a thread like this could certainly effect that ability. Any chance you could post your entire conversation thread?