• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

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    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

Well, I've read all this and it won't stop me from doing business with ATC, I think all the good outweighs this. ATC obviously made efforts to compensate for the loss by offering money back and future hatchlings for LIFE. Which if you read the OP said they did not want to do that even though they could make the money back. It may not be what they wanted but its compensation for which the money would have been made back. I don't see the "radiated breeder" wanting compensation for the tortoise the OP gave and it strangely died after a week. And I have yet to see any emails posted from either side. Yes its ATC responsibly to fix the situation the best it can based on its terms, the deal was brokered through 3rd party (supposedly) and even though the OP claims they didn't know, I still want to see emails from ATC or the OP proving what was said and what wasn't. The OP I see has been asked several times to post emails and yet no one does.
 
And with getting free hatchlings the OP will make well over 3k... They should have just accepted the offer, it was a good deal. I think the OP is really just out of line. It was unfortunate what happened. But I'd gladly take store credit for life knowing I'll come out way ahead in the long run...
 
He never said free hatchlings. He said animals at cost. The buyer would have to buy thousands of dollars of animals to ever get the 3200 back. That's not a just solution. This will be in small claims, with no lawyers, and it will have to be in Arizona. ATC will lose despite their TOS. This is like the "waiver" people sign before doing something risky like bungee jumping. Several people have gotten hurt or killed and won lawsuits in court despite having actually physically signed the paper. He isn't taking responsibility because he just doesn't want to be out 3200. He probably doesn't have it, but that's too bad. He shouldn't be in business then.
 
And I don't see the "radiated breeder" complaining, he is out money also. And the fact the OP was unwilling to try to get the animal sooner also puts some blame on him. Regardless of work you should make the necessary arraignments to pick the animal up, if you can't then either wait til you can be there or find someone. I am not saying there is no fault on ATC end if any of what was said is true. Fact remains the dude is offered free tortoises to make up for the money and is still not satisfied. ATC shouldn't get a bad rep because someone is unwilling to go another route. You don't always get your money back for things you take to the store. They give you store credit, which was offered for LIFE to the OP!!! I really don't see the problem, other than someone wanting to give someone a bad rep
 
allesuberschildkroten said:
And I don't see the "radiated breeder" complaining, he is out money also. And the fact the OP was unwilling to try to get the animal sooner also puts some blame on him. Regardless of work you should make the necessary arraignments to pick the animal up, if you can't then either wait til you can be there or find someone. I am not saying there is no fault on ATC end if any of what was said is true. Fact remains the dude is offered free tortoises to make up for the money and is still not satisfied. ATC shouldn't get a bad rep because someone is unwilling to go another route. You don't always get your money back for things you take to the store. They give you store credit, which was offered for LIFE to the OP!!! I really don't see the problem, other than someone wanting to give someone a bad rep
Click to expand...

My eyes skipped over the free for life sentence for some reason. My bad! I'm not sure, though, why you're so quick to suspect the OP is lying, but take the fact that ATC said the female died a week after receipt at face value. The fact of when the OP picked up the tortoise is a moot point. The animal had been in a sealed plastic bag since at least the evening before, if not longer. It would have been just as dead at 10 am as later in the day. Is the free hatchlings a just solution? I'm not so sure. The dead tortoise was an adult male. If the OP had adult females he was counting on breeding him to, he will be out a lot of money by waiting for a hatchling to get up to breeding size. They are not Ball pythons that take less than a year to breeding size. It takes several years. Is there even any guarantee that ATC is willing to give Radiated hatchlings? If he's only willing to give up lower end hatchlings like Russians, that's a lot of hatchlings (that the OP may not be interested in anyway) to make up 3200. Your analogy of taking something back to the store for store credit makes no sense. If I get a TV that doesn't work, I can at least get the same TV when I take it back.
 
Never said the OP was lying, I think they just got carried away and are not satisfied with the solution presented to them. I can only say that things in life don't always go the way we want them to when something goes wrong. Ehh my analogy: might not work in this instance, but depending the stores policy, you may not get what you want. And you do not know why he wanted a male, you dont know he was breeding. OP has been absent for several pages not saying anything. Compensation was offered and he rejected, not much more can be done. He isn't going to get a full refund and we all understand that. And you're right there is no guarantee that ATC would uphold the offer, but its in writing on this forum for the world to see. And if he didn't it sure would come back to bite him one day. Im just giving my thoughts, and that this isn't really stopping me from buying in the future from ATC. I don't see any issue with the solution presented based on what the OP said vs ATC. Everyone else is obviously seeing a huge issue I don't see. I would be just as upset as the OP if my tort died during shipping, still doesn't change I'd accept what I was given in exchange. I can only say that for myself if the situation happened to me at this point in time. I may feel different under other circumstances. But just based on what both parties wrote, I don't see a problem
 
"The tortoise Mr. Hermes sent me arrived on Wednesday March 20th at 5 pm, DEAD. The tortoise arrived in an unvented box, which upon opening, contained another unvented box with the bottom broken out. This inner box was IN A TIED CLOSED PLASTIC BAG."

This suggests the tortoise died in shipping probably because of how it was boxed. The bottom was broken out. The tortoise had to have spilled out. Do you really think someone would knowingly put a live tortoise in a sealed plastic bag? It was put in a sealed plastic bag BECAUSE it was dead. Achems's Razor- the simplest explaination.

And what he offered is now moot, also, because ATC has decided now they won't take responsibility.

"Nothing other than was already offerred then retracted."

The above from the OP.
 
Dennis Hultman said:
I agree with everything in your post minus this point.


It was never a standard to put ventilation holes in the shipping boxes for reptiles. There are many threads here that discuss why people do and don't.

When I first starting shipping about ten years ago I looked to those who have been doing this for years. Those that had twenty years in this business.

I have never put a single ventilation hole in a package. I have yet to have a DOA (knock on wood) and pray I never do. I have shipped and received hundreds of packages without incident.

The whole ventilation stuff started when now a defunct shipping company put forth a video on how to package live reptiles. It was done by one breeder who stated it was necessary. When more and more of the general hobbyist (not breeders) started shipping they looked to that video for guidance and now all of sudden you have people stating that it is a must.

It's garbage and factually not true. Go and look at any shipping thread dating back more than five years and you will not find people ventilating boxes in their tutorial.

I don't do it but also don't seal the box up like fort Knox with tape.
Click to expand...

He says otherwise about the shipping, I'm not going to argue about that. Just that some people wouldn't agree, and I dont either. Anytime I have received a tort or turt there were no vent holes and they were fine (for me personally).
 
Dennis Hultman said:
I agree with everything in your post minus this point.


It was never a standard to put ventilation holes in the shipping boxes for reptiles. There are many threads here that discuss why people do and don't.

When I first starting shipping about ten years ago I looked to those who have been doing this for years. Those that had twenty years in this business.

I have never put a single ventilation hole in a package. I have yet to have a DOA (knock on wood) and pray I never do. I have shipped and received hundreds of packages without incident.

The whole ventilation stuff started when now a defunct shipping company put forth a video on how to package live reptiles. It was done by one breeder who stated it was necessary. When more and more of the general hobbyist (not breeders) started shipping they looked to that video for guidance and now all of sudden you have people stating that it is a must.

It's garbage and factually not true. Go and look at any shipping thread dating back more than five years and you will not find people ventilating boxes in their tutorial.

I don't do it but also don't seal the box up like fort Knox with tape.
Click to expand...

He says otherwise about the shipping, I'm not going to argue about that. Just that some people wouldn't agree, and I dont either. Anytime I have received a tort or turt there were no vent holes and they were fine (for me personally).
 
Dennis Hultman said:
I agree with everything in your post minus this point.


It was never a standard to put ventilation holes in the shipping boxes for reptiles. There are many threads here that discuss why people do and don't.

When I first starting shipping about ten years ago I looked to those who have been doing this for years. Those that had twenty years in this business.

I have never put a single ventilation hole in a package. I have yet to have a DOA (knock on wood) and pray I never do. I have shipped and received hundreds of packages without incident.

The whole ventilation stuff started when now a defunct shipping company put forth a video on how to package live reptiles. It was done by one breeder who stated it was necessary. When more and more of the general hobbyist (not breeders) started shipping they looked to that video for guidance and now all of sudden you have people stating that it is a must.

It's garbage and factually not true. Go and look at any shipping thread dating back more than five years and you will not find people ventilating boxes in their tutorial.

I don't do it but also don't seal the box up like fort Knox with tape.
Click to expand...

He says otherwise about the shipping, I'm not going to argue about that. Just that some people wouldn't agree, and I dont either. Anytime I have received a tort or turt there were no vent holes and they were fine (for me personally).
 
"the bottom broken out"

This is what I'm talking about, not the lack of ventilation holes. I never put holes in shipping boxes and Dennis is right most experienced shippers don't either. The box either wasn't adequately taped on the bottom or was just not strong enough for the weight of the animal. And before it's said, yes it's possible the tortoise was in it's shell alive when put in the plastic bag, but it still would be the fault of the shipper.

If this does go to small claims court, the OP would probably have to accept ATC's off whether they like it or not. The times I took people to small claims court the referee usually forces the complaintant to accept whatever the defendant says for making them whole. So in all practicality you may be right about the OP accepting the offer.
 
Ahh.. ok, sorry didn't understand about the box. I really am not looking to argue about it, just for me what I read, I would accept it, bc no refund will be given unless court makes it happen. I'm just looking at it as, they aren't getting their money as said by ATC and best chance they had was to take the offer. I agree its all messed up, but I also think that a risk people are taking when they buy from people.
 
allesuberschildkroten said:
Ahh.. ok, sorry didn't understand about the box. I really am not looking to argue about it, just for me what I read, I would accept it, bc no refund will be given unless court makes it happen. I'm just looking at it as, they aren't getting their money as said by ATC and best chance they had was to take the offer. I agree its all messed up, but I also think that a risk people are taking when they buy from people.
Click to expand...

Ya, when I think about it from a practical point of view, I think you're right. Something would be better than nothing and as I said, the court would probably force Eric to accept the offer anyway. And that after all the time and hassle and court fees.
 
I was never oferred free radiated tortoise hatchlings, only them at cost. If it was truly free store credit then the hatchlIngs advertised ought to have been offered for free to cover my loss. As for the female he says died. I have documentation that indicates she arrived well and active. I never recieved any proof (pics) of the dead animal. I considered re-contacting ATC regarding an 11 inch Aldabra they have advertised to cover my loss, but at this point I really don't feel comfortable doing business with them, nor want to get into a situation where another tortoises life if put at risk during shipping. At this point I will just have to see how things shake out in court.
 
Sure, go ahead. I'm pretty sure it said at cost. That said, the offer was retracted by ATC. I asked for my tortoise back and the $1,000. Check I sent him immediately, however I recieved neither.
 
No matter how you look at it, ATC should of done better regarding outcome.
Too much bad publicity. A company doing the right thing when there is a problem to make customer happy goes way further than a smooth transaction, in terms of reviews.
$3200 is a lot, but ATC seems to be fairly large established business. If they cant afford a $3200 loss then maybe not the right business to be in. Once in a while, unfortunately, things go wrong. It is clear from postings what happened. Bad packaging caused an unfortunate death. Good packaging without crazy temperatures and tortoise would of been fine for days if delayed. I would imagine papers have been filed and will go to court. All could of been avoided and ATC reputation magnified instead of diminished if had made it right. After this many months, how many potential customers have avoided purchasing high end tortoises because of this? Hard to say. But I bet its not zero. In these days everyone does a search for reviews, especially when purchase is significant.
 
Arizona Tortoise Compound said:
As to everyone that is telling me to make it right. I offered Erik money and tortoises for life at cost!!! At cost means if I hatch them then it would be free. Erik doesnt want that and only wanted 3k not the 472.56 and store credits for life.

Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound
Click to expand...

Right there.... And it was retracted cause you wouldn't accept it
 
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