• Posted 12/19/2024.
    =====================

    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

PayPal fees

Black Adder

Black Adder

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Not sure if this is best place or even the right place but this subject is really starting to tick me off!

Of the last three snake purchases I have attempted to make ALL of the sellers have requested payment by PayPal by friends and family or for ME to add on the 3% fee.
When I have then duly informed them I will not be sending by friends and family as that is NOT what that function is for and that it may also leave me with no recourse to any action with PayPal if there was a problem, and that it is against PayPal TOS to ask the buyer to pay the fees, they usually get all bent out of shape and disagree with me.
I point out that the fee is to go towards PayPal operating costs and as such is part and parcel of doing business with PayPal and for the convenience of having the cash available to them right away.
Unfortunately the end result is that we usually end up not doing any business.
Of these last three, two were somewhat known and established breeders ( not posting any names obviously as it is not the BOI)

Now yes I could capitulate and pay the fee buy why should I?
In one case it would only have been about $11 but still it is wrong and if nothing else I am a man of principles!

Have others been noticing an increasing trend in this direction of late?
 
If a seller is trying to force you to lose all protections as a buyer either knowingly or in an attempt to bypass paying a fee for a service that makes them money, they're not worth doing business with. It's unethical for them to do it. You did the right thing by standing your ground.
 
:iagree:

PayPal fees are a cost of doing business FOR the business. Just like the fees that sellers have to pay in order to have a credit card account.

Just tell the sellers that unless they are "friends and family" and the money is a bonafide gift, then they just don't qualify to receive funds in that manner. If they want to become "friends", then how about a "friendly" discount, buddy? :D If they argue with you, just terminate the conversation and find what you want elsewhere. If more people act in this manner, the problem will eventually become self resolving.

I buy a fair number of items on the net using PayPal, and I have NEVER, EVER had any seller insist on this sort of nonsense.

I get dinged by fees on every transaction made for memberships, sponsorships, and advertising from my FaunaAds.com website. Do I like having to lose that money to fees? Nope. But I would like it even less if there wasn't an online function like PayPal to process those payments easily and conveniently. They need to make money in order to stay in business. That's just the way it is. Ya wanna play, ya gotta pay.
 
Black Adder said:
Have others been noticing an increasing trend in this direction of late?
Click to expand...

Yes! I've completed several purchase transactions this year, and all but two sellers asked me to send payment via PayPal's friends and family option. I pointed out that I'm not willing to forfeit my buyer protection in case there's a problem. I was then asked to include the fee in my payment. I know I shouldn't have, but I caved, because I really wanted the snakes. It wasn't a lot of money, but of course, that isn't the point.

To me, the fees should be considered a cost of doing business, just like any other merchant that accepts credit cards has to pay. It's not right to cheat PayPal out of their revenues, and as a seller, I wouldn't want to lose my account privileges by violating their TOS.

Kathy
 
Just last night I lost out on what was imo a smoking deal but I refused to send the money( $2475) by friends&family or pay the 3% fee.
Sort of annoyed me to miss it but the only way we are going to fix this trend is by NOT complying with these seller demands that are actually against PayPal TOS.

I wonder if these sellers were reported to Paypal if it would make any difference?
 
I can't stand it when people do that. If it's someone I know well or have done a lot of business with I'll usually send it friends or family just as a gesture, but if I'm buying and someone does that I get really offended. If you're selling and using PayPal, you pay the fees associated with it. That would be like a restaurant making you pay 3% more to cover credit card fees.
 
You can ask paypal what their thoughts on it are, but I doubt they'll be too interested.

It's annoying and makes all the other users of paypal look bad. People need to figure out that they need to accept or ask a price that will get them what they want AFTER all fees are taken out. If not, then I think it's their problem, and not the buyers.
 
I send my sons money sometimes 'friends and family' that is what it is for. But to me, using that form of payment if a business transaction is involved is ripping Paypal off and is to me, is flat out wrong.
I wonder sometimes how buyers can't figure out that 'saving the seller some fees' means that Paypal doesn't get those fees, and how they do not realize that is how Paypal as a company, and Paypal's employees, make their living.
 
I really don't understand why people get so up in arms when a seller wants you to cover the 3% fees. If I sell you a snake tomorrow and price it at $13 so I can make $10 after fees are you going to be mad? I really just don't see the problem.

I think the biggest issue with this is the fact the sellers aren't already accounting for this 3% before prices start being thrown around. If you are going to sell something you should account for that in your price and not bring it up afterwards. That's where the problems occur. There is nothing wrong with upping your price to cover what is essentially an operating cost for you...unless you already agreed on a price and are trying to add it on afterwards.

Bottom line either pay the 3% if it is still a price you like or just walk away.
 
MrTPlush said:
I really don't understand why people get so up in arms when a seller wants you to cover the 3% fees. If I sell you a snake tomorrow and price it at $13 so I can make $10 after fees are you going to be mad? I really just don't see the problem.

I think the biggest issue with this is the fact the sellers aren't already accounting for this 3% before prices start being thrown around. If you are going to sell something you should account for that in your price and not bring it up afterwards. That's where the problems occur. There is nothing wrong with upping your price to cover what is essentially an operating cost for you...unless you already agreed on a price and are trying to add it on afterwards.

Bottom line either pay the 3% if it is still a price you like or just walk away.
Click to expand...

Hmm
So even though against PayPal tos you advocate FOR the buyer paying feed
Interesting!
 
I don't really advocate asking after a price has been agreed upon, but offering your item at $13 so you can make $10 then yes...yes I do. If that 3% is built in to your asking price and you don't outright ask for them to add 3% there is nothing wrong.
 
MrTPlush said:
I don't really advocate asking after a price has been agreed upon, but offering your item at $13 so you can make $10 then yes...yes I do. If that 3% is built in to your asking price and you don't outright ask for them to add 3% there is nothing wrong.
Click to expand...

Got you! Yes that I do agree with as if people ask upfront a price that they have already factored in some amount to cover PayPal fees then buyer knows the price to buy this animal is X not X×X. Buyer does not need to know seller has factored in a fee in selling price already.
What i have the problem with is when there is an advertised price, we agree, THEN they say, oh btw you need to add on 3% to cover PayPal fees...that is WRONG!
 
Black Adder said:
What i have the problem with is when there is an advertised price, we agree, THEN they say, oh btw you need to add on 3% to cover PayPal fees...that is WRONG!
Click to expand...

Wrong, cheap, and against Paypal's terms of service. If you, as a seller, really want that sale, eat the 3% for the credit card processing service Paypal is providing you[/] to make that sale!
 
snowgyre said:
Wrong, cheap, and against Paypal's terms of service. If you, as a seller, really want that sale, eat the 3% for the credit card processing service Paypal is providing you[/] to make that sale!
Click to expand...


I think you are making something out of nothing. Unless you actually ask the buyer to pay the fees I don't even think that is against the PayPal TOS. How are they paying for fees then? The buyer is paying that price for just the item as far as they know. If you ask more money to try and offset fees and someone buys it at that price seems pretty acceptable.

I guess I just fail to see the issue here. Do you ask everyone you deal with if they are including a bump in their asking price to cover fees to get a certain amount?
 
It's pretty clear in PayPal's terms of service that sellers are not supposed to charge buyers that fee. If a seller is willing to violate PayPal's terms of service to try to make a quick buck, I question their ethics and business practices for the entire transaction, and I will back out of a purchase. It's about standing up for your rights as a buyer.

That said, in extenuating circumstances I will pay a good seller the 3% fee as a thank you (especially if they cut me a good deal), but if the seller explicitly asks for it, they've lost the sale. Suddenly that 3% doesn't seem to be such a big financial bite for a seller to take when we're talking about lost revenue if buyers actually used the protections PayPal provides them.
 

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snowgyre said:
That said, in extenuating circumstances I will pay a good seller the 3% fee as a thank you (especially if they cut me a good deal), but if the seller explicitly asks for it, they've lost the sale. Suddenly that 3% doesn't seem to be such a big financial bite for a seller to take when we're talking about lost revenue if buyers actually used the protections PayPal provides them.
Click to expand...
I agree and have done the same in the past
 
Black Adder said:
Just last night I lost out on what was imo a smoking deal but I refused to send the money( $2475) by friends&family or pay the 3% fee.
Sort of annoyed me to miss it but the only way we are going to fix this trend is by NOT complying with these seller demands that are actually against PayPal TOS.

I wonder if these sellers were reported to Paypal if it would make any difference?
Click to expand...

Report the transaction, and include the request/demand for that payment method...especially if it shows them refusing to sell without it'
 
Figuring out associated costs, and having them factored into the advertised price, is expected. No need to state "fees included"...and that statement could conceivably be a problem with PayPal.
Posting "gift or +_%" is a cue for most people to simply close the ad - or at least it use to be. (Ithink the social media sales have allowed that practice to grow significantly.)
Asking for gift or +_% when it wasn't posted is a total :censored: move, and generally makes the seller a :censored: by default. (Occasionally, the seller genuinely doesn't know the above, and is just doing what he sees others doing)



I won't make payments that way on principle...and the same principles dictate that I don't accept them. I have had people send gift payments or add extra for the fees, and I have refunded every such payment.
 
snowgyre said:
It's pretty clear in PayPal's terms of service that sellers are not supposed to charge buyers that fee. If a seller is willing to violate PayPal's terms of service to try to make a quick buck, I question their ethics and business practices for the entire transaction, and I will back out of a purchase. It's about standing up for your rights as a buyer.

That said, in extenuating circumstances I will pay a good seller the 3% fee as a thank you (especially if they cut me a good deal), but if the seller explicitly asks for it, they've lost the sale. Suddenly that 3% doesn't seem to be such a big financial bite for a seller to take when we're talking about lost revenue if buyers actually used the protections PayPal provides them.
Click to expand...

gets his 3% from the buyer (which, btw, I agree is wrong...cost of doing business). As a non-profit, we get a lower rate from PayPal, but many people choose to make donations as sending money to family and friends. If they ask which, we make clear that we cannot ask them to that, as it is a violation of the PayPal TOS. Rehoming fees must be sent as goods and services.
 
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