• Posted 12/19/2024.
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South Carolina man bitten by an inland taipan

JColt

JColt

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I thought this would have been posted already. I have seen this guy before and he is not really bright at all. He has a facebook page and youtube page. Very irresponsible keeper. Viper Keeper has a video out discussing the issue along with a plea to help Kentucky Reptile Zoo as they received negative press because of the issue.

A South Carolina man is battling for his life in a hospital after he was bitten by an inland taipan — the most venomous snake in the world — in his home on Friday.

https://www.pennlive.com/outdoors/2...n-the-world-that-he-was-keeping-as-a-pet.html
 
An idiot and blight on the hobby and total detriment to all snake keepers.

Might the sellers of snakes he bought have some responsibility ? Not for his specific stupid actions - but for selling to a person who is known in social media for his irresponsible behavior ?
 
Martin Nowak said:
An idiot and blight on the hobby and total detriment to all snake keepers.

Might the sellers of snakes he bought have some responsibility ? Not for his specific stupid actions - but for selling to a person who is known in social media for his irresponsible behavior ?
Click to expand...
That assumes they knew who he was. I had never heard of him until this hit the news, and I first read about it a few days ago on a firearm forum.

Unfortunately and as a result the opinion of 99% of these people, most of whom are vehemently pro individual rights, is that private keeping of venomous critters should be illegal nationwide.
 
"That assumes they knew who he was. I had never heard of him until this hit the news, and I first read about it a few days ago on a firearm forum."

Can't disagree. I had not heard about him either. However, almost weekly I am sent a pic or short vid of someone free handling N. American pit vipers or even foreign venomous. And I understand about certain species being free handled. But the public doesn't get it. Recall in Alabama - ownership of non-native venomous totally shut down decades ago after a single irresponsible individual "lost" a cobra.

Huge societal question. Are any forms of background checks appropriate when selling something potentially dangerous? Recently, parents are being held accountable for minor kids using guns to kill / maim others. Driver's license denied to those with epilepsy. Opioids, pilot license, vision requirements, age, and on and on.
 
I'll put it this way, as someone who keeps and propagates venomous reptiles: I take a great deal of care vetting who I will source animals to, and the more significant species requiring more strenuous proofs of experience and responsibility. I review legality of where they live, require them to be at minimum a legal adult, and review their behavior with animals, because I do not want it on my conscious should they either kill one of my animals or themselves with one of my animals, and because I do not want it to be used as fuel for the anti-exotic animal lobbyists.

Having said that, there were multiple venomous vendors at the show. Those of us who knew this particular individual and his mishandling of animals made sure to inform those who were not aware of exactly how much bad news he was, and instructed them to not source animals to him. There was one exception who failed to heed that, and subsequently where the taipan was sourced. The one who sourced the taipan is also a known bad actor in the community, who actively sells reptiles in exceptionally poor condition (up to having dying animals on their table), and has served time in federal prison for poaching and smuggling turtles.
 
That really isn't the primary concern the reptile community should have right now. Honestly, it would be better if he didn't have insurance, as that would add to his immediate and future concerns. We do not need him coming back to the hobby, especially given everything known about him. If the lasting damage from the venom does not keep him out, crushing medical debt and potential civil+criminal liability are our best bet in keeping him from coming back.

Because of his actions, the SC exotic community is looking at the potential for a severe legislative push for an exotic animal ban. Should they fight that off, or push through a less restrictive option like a permit system, his return to the community would put them, and the rest of the hobby, at risk for more severe and draconian legislative action.
 
You reach a wrong conclusion for my question. Perhaps asking me "why did you ask that question?" would have been a good first reply.

Lack of insurance means the citizens of SC who use the hospital(s) he was in will bear the cost of his egregious behavior. The hospital will bear the unreimbursed cost and spread that cost to subsequent patients. This in turn foments authorities to restrict captive ownership of hots, especially non-native hots. Such also raises the premium costs of those with insurance who must subsidize the results of his dumb behavior.
On the other hand, if he has health insurance, he will be in a risk pool of other people. In this case the risk pool must bear the cost of his stupid behavior via increased premium costs the next year. This also foments authorities to restrict captive ownership of hots, especially non-native species.

So my question is financial, political, and reptile community based.

Let's take it bit further. If he has no insurance the cost(s) of care will be enormous. The hospital will rightly and aggressively seek to recover those costs. The hospital will appeal to the Board of the South Carolina Hospital Association to use their lobbyist to urge legislators to create prohibitions against keeping dangerous animals. This approach has been effectively utilized in other states. (To my knowledge the reptile community has no lobbyists retained. As an aside - in Alabama - even the dog deer hunters have an experienced and knowledgeable lobbyist who appears at every game and fish commission meeting which addresses deer hunting with dogs.)

So my question is financial, political, and reptile community based.

Let's take it yet further. We now have precedences where individuals who "provides the match to a known arsonist" can be held accountable for at least a portion of the destruction and cost. Parents of juvenile shooters are being held accountable for the serious crimes when there is evidence the parents knew of psychological issues in the juvenile. The victim is well known to the reptile community. His antics and behaviors well known. The hospital can likely be successful in a civil case for cost recovery from the person who sold him the snake given his known proclivities. It is conceivable the show owners could have some liability for (and I do not know details - so this in part hypothetical from my point of view) - but the show owners may have liability for hospital costs if they rented him a table or rented the seller a table. The hospital will likely pursue cost recovery from the snake seller and perhaps the show.

So my question is financial, political, and reptile community based.

I posted a fair and reasonable question whose answer - yes OR no - has far reaching effects on the reptile community and potential legislative changes in SC. And then, if SC changes its laws, such will be precedence for other states to follow suit.

I have already heard in colleague settings a proposal that people who maintain dangerous reptiles be required to post a bond for each specimen, show proof of health insurance, have assets sufficient to cover health care costs via liens, and be subject to significant fines for failure to comply. And as with gun sellers, the seller have accountability for whom they sell such animals to. And that keepers of non-native venomous be required to pre-purchase species specific (when available) antivenin to be stored at the snake owner's expense in a local acceptable location such as a zoo or university.

So my question has far reaching potential effects for the reptile community.

Does anyone know if he had / has health insurance ?
 
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Since he was employed as a public school teacher I suspect he had health insurance, as well as short term and long term disability insurance, courtesy of the hard-working taxpayers of South Carolina.

www.fitsnews.com

South Carolina Snake Handler Fights For Survival After Venomous Bite - FITSNews

"Worst-case scenario..."
www.fitsnews.com www.fitsnews.com

South Carolina man is reportedly fighting for his life after being bitten by one of the most venomous snakes in the world late last week.

Jeff Liebowitz, a teacher at South Florence High School, was transported to the intensive care unit at McLeod hospital after being bitten by an Inland Taipan in the early morning hours on Friday (September 6, 2024).
Click to expand...
 
Thank you bcr229. Sounds logical and reasonable he has public education health insurance.
I would just have to think that his general demeanor with snakes and media must in some ways carry into the classroom .....

The cost of his treatment therefore will accrue to all teachers and employees in the SC public education system. Their premiums will rise in the next contract year under usual increases; plus the costs of this stupid act. It is further possible that public school retirees are under a similar umbrella - perhaps in the same carrier plan. If so, the retiree's costs will increase. Every state legislature and governor are grappling with increasing health care costs and will no doubt hear from constituents about not repeating "such an avoidable circumstance". There is no doubt in this case that elected officials and lobbyists from many corporate and societal interests will work to reduce opportunities to keep hots in SC.

Seems to me, the reptile community needs to self police to the extent possible. Conscientious keepers and show owners could do a number of things to help optics of the industry. The industry has an association - USARK. (I am a member but otherwise have no part in its management or governance).
Membership in a trade organization creates strength of purpose and influence. Membership can also influence trade organization direction and policies. If show owners required table renters to be members of USARK - such would bolster USARK abilities and representation. (For example, I belong to a couple sport shooting gun clubs - all of which predicate club membership on membership in the NRA or NSSF plus local proof of clean background). USARK must then also be firm in carrying out its mission to be credible to both membership and the public alike. It has been many years since I kept hots so I am out of that information loop. Perhaps the conscientious hot keepers could develop some kind of standardized credibility "certificate" of training or knowledge. Perhaps USARK could do something in this regard. Since all the media outlets are public - conscientious reptile keepers could broadly expose bad actors. Then members could avoid buying and selling to such individuals. As with any affinity group, if reptile keepers remain fragmented and without common representation, then governmental agencies will control and reduce the hobby. I think if reptile keepers endorsed harsh penalties for bad actors such would go a long way to preserve the hobby. If the industry (e.g. show owners and buyers) marginalized the bad actors such would go a long way to preserve the hobby.

Readers - ideas ?

The hobby / industry is under increasing assail and scrutiny. If the participants don't do something among themselves then the reptile community will continue to shrink and opportunities will diminish.

As I have previously posted in FC, reptile keepers can know and understand how USARK is funded and how it spends its revenue. Here is the link to USARK's most recent IRS Form 990 tax filing (2022). Scroll through the filing and you can see board members, revenue, expenses, salary of officers, and more. One could expect the 2023 to soon be public as well.
projects.propublica.org

United States Association Of Reptile Keepers Inc, Full Filing - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.
projects.propublica.org

You will note the IRS requires 501(c)3 organizations to declare their MIssion and purpose(s) on page 1. In this case USARK states:

"Briefly describe the organization’s mission or most significant activities: SCIENCE, EDUCATION AND CONSERVATION BASED ADVOCACY FOR THE RESPONSIBLE PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF, AND TRADE IN REPTILES. TO ENDORSE CAGING STANDARDS, SOUND HUSBANDRY, ESCAPE PREVENTION PROTOCOLS, AND AN INTEGRATED APPROACH TO VITAL CONSERVATION ISSUES."

Note: "... responsible private ownership" and "... escape prevention protocols".

I have not seen (and could have missed) - has USARK posted a press release about this incident? Taken a stand on the irresponsible nature of the bite circumstances and free handling a taipan? Sent correspondence to SC governor's office denouncing the victim's actions? Etc. If the trade association does not take a firm stand - even a zero tolerance stand - then it is not true to its stated mission and cannot be effective on behalf of reptile keepers.



Note: I edited "NC" to "SC" in my previous comments.
 
One other comment - this thread first posted 10 days ago on 9/11/2024.
As of this moment - 11 comments from only 4 authors - AND, only 346 views in 10 days.
The topic seems to be of low interest among FC readers.
Of course there are many other media outlets carrying the story. I have looked at a "random" number YouTube videos on the topic - in my estimation - they seem rather soft on the circumstances and long term negative impacts to the reptile community.
Still, seems to show fragmented reptile keeper culture has little interest in how the event destabilizes reptile keeping.
 
That's not the half of it. Jeff has already let it be known that he sold his story to Netflix, who already has a director picked out: the same clown who did they Tiger King series.
 
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