• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
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    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

genetics?

Randy F

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Sorry time for me to try and start another intellectual topic that makes people think! I saw a old thread about a spider x normal pairing that had 9 spider babies and no normals and someone asked about a super spider. Here was my reply:

I just had this talk with Nick Mutton. In case you do not know him, he is mainly a carpet python guy with a small but super nice ball collection and a gene god. We were talking about some of the morphs that do not have a super and how a couple BIG names tend to babble (lie) their way through questions. One of the easiest ways to conceal lethal combos is to say "I have been so busy making combos that I have never tried" which if you think about it is kinda funny. I have been making combos for many years to the tune of 4 and 5 gene animals but never tried for a super? He stated that every attempt he heard of has had the eggs die half way through incubation. The only ones that lived died a short period of time later, or just would not gain size. Now another question to come in to play is if their was a super spider out there that could just be a really reduced pattern.......who retarded would it be? Now on the other hand, would it make a baby without neurological issues? Two dwarfs can have a normal sized baby! I would imagine that if it could be done someone would have done it by now and have pics to prove it along with data. Now could it be that a spider bred to another spider with other genes in the mix could cancel a lethal gene and prove out? Its much like the question of the desert females not producing because of temps, but if you have a desert gene in a 3 gene female it will breed as the other two would but could possess the desert gene?


now hoping it will not get locked because it is a new thread on a new topic here instead of another forum. Lets get some feedback here and see how we can enlighten eachother and maybe learn a thing or two:thumbsup:
 
If a mutation is homozygous lethal, like hg woma, I don't think it's at all likely that other mutations will make it survivable. Sure there is some chance that one defect can counteract another but I wouldn’t count on it.
 
Always an interesting topic.

Not only do I not believe in a homozygous spider, I hope to heck one is never found.
Talk about crashing the market and stomping it into the ground, with the million spider and spider combos out there, and with the diminishing demand, their value would end up being less than a normal wild type in a few years.
 
I'm not really following you here Randy, but Kevin has said on one of the NERD videos that there's no issues with spider x spider breeding.
 
He stated that every attempt he heard of has had the eggs die half way through incubation. The only ones that lived died a short period of time later, or just would not gain size.

First of all, I'd need to see numbers here to believe it, not just hearsay. No offense is intended by this comment; I've just seen far too many examples of hearsay turned into "common knowledge" without anything substantial to back it up.

Secondly, why would all the eggs from a Spider x Spider pairing die if only the homozygous form were lethal?

Third, why would the "big boys" hide homozygous Spider lethality? The Super Woma, if it hatches, does not survive long. Wouldn't they want to hide that, too?

Now another question to come in to play is if their was a super spider out there that could just be a really reduced pattern.......who retarded would it be?

I'm guessing if that were the case, people would've noticed by now. After discovering a new possible-co-dom gene, the first thing people do is try to prove a super form. Even if the differences were fairly subtle, methinks people would've noticed by now.

Now on the other hand, would it make a baby without neurological issues?

It has been shown over and over that a wobbly Spider can have non-wobbly offspring and vice versa. (If you think all Spiders wobble to some degree, then replace "non-wobbly" with "low-wobbly.")

Now could it be that a spider bred to another spider with other genes in the mix could cancel a lethal gene and prove out? Its much like the question of the desert females not producing because of temps, but if you have a desert gene in a 3 gene female it will breed as the other two would but could possess the desert gene?

This is a good question. It's possible mixing it with other genes could decrease the lethality of a certain mix, but it's probably unlikely. It all depends on what is causing the lethality and if other genes can "fix" it.

The comparison with Desert females is a good one. If it's a temperature-based thing, as some suspect, then I would guess a multiple-gene Desert female would be more temperature-tolerant and, therefore, not have as much of a problem. It's entirely possible that the Desert temperature dependence could dominate a mix of morph genes, though.
 
Kevin stated in one of his videos that spider X spider was a non issue.
I also could swear in one of his newer videos Kevin claims to have pearls and pearl combos that are surviving?

I feel for the desert people, but after more reports of desert females not producing even with the cooler temps, I'm doubting the temp issue will fix anything, sadly it's sounding more and more like a pipe dream.
 
No offense is intended by this comment; I've just seen far too many examples of hearsay turned into "common knowledge" without anything substantial to back it up.QUOTE]

none taken Krystal, thats why I post these questions up here. Its not to try and make me look good or some one look bad, or vice versa.......its to get people talking and THINKING. It is far too easy for someone to read something and pass it along and before you know it, there it is, the word of God! I bet we could come up with a really good rumor between a couple of us here and watch it spread like a young school girl in a short dresses repitation:D I like looking at peoples pictures of locks, what they are breeding, and such......but, every now and then we need a topic to get people to actually think and converse. I am completely happy asking question that will make me look stupid to some if it gets people talking and a few beginners will learn something from it. How many people on here have been breeding only a couple years or have a very limited number of snakes? Stuff like this gives them a chance to participate and learn, not just ready "the word of God!" Sorry thats just me, I will make fun of myself if it makes others laugh. I read the forum and every now and then look for a question I can get people to talk about.

Hey Jerry......I didn't want to start a topic on pearl's because I would lose myself! I figured when I found the topic that spiders would be a easy entry level topic for everyone to participate in:thumbsup:

and ps Krystal, thats why I have love for ya, you always weigh in and give the topic some food for thought:bow01:
 
While I'm not going to chime in on the who hom spider thing, I applaud your previous explanation and original intentions with this thread. This hobby needs more of type thinking. I tried but still can't give you karma despite your last post being very karma worth randy.
 
out of curiosity regarding the desert ball......just something that came to mind about it being a dom or codom that might be a very dumb question but hey its how we learn......now on world of ball pythons it says desert is a dom gene, is that only because females are unable to produce to see if there is a super form? or at one point did someone have a magical desert female that was able to breed and an attempt for a super desert has been made with no success?
 
I think genes would have to be considered dominant until a super form is proven.
 
Hey Deobra, that is a good question. The have been a couple desert females lay but the majority of them slug out. I have no idea what was bred to the desert females though. You bring up a very good point that no-one has asked to my knowledge. I know a lot of people have given up on desert females where a few are still working towards it. If people are still slugging out with lower temps, who knows. I still want to see people produce offspring from multiple gene females that have the desert gene in it. I love what the gene does for other morphs and really want to see someone break the barrier. I would really like to see what a super would do. If I had to guess, I would say there should be a super form. Once again this is just me looking at other snakes that have supers and what their single gene morphs look like.

Thanks again for taking the time to think and reply! Gave out karma for today but somes coming your way tomorrow!
 
Hey Deobra, that is a good question. The have been a couple desert females lay but the majority of them slug out. I have no idea what was bred to the desert females though. You bring up a very good point that no-one has asked to my knowledge. I know a lot of people have given up on desert females where a few are still working towards it. If people are still slugging out with lower temps, who knows. I still want to see people produce offspring from multiple gene females that have the desert gene in it. I love what the gene does for other morphs and really want to see someone break the barrier. I would really like to see what a super would do. If I had to guess, I would say there should be a super form. Once again this is just me looking at other snakes that have supers and what their single gene morphs look like.

Thanks again for taking the time to think and reply! Gave out karma for today but somes coming your way tomorrow!
karma is good :) lol I just thought it would be a good question.....maybe I will get a female desert and try it myself who knows :rolleyes:
 
If I had to guess, I would say there should be a super form. Once again this is just me looking at other snakes that have supers and what their single gene morphs look like.

One would think, but this is where things get confusing. BHB(I believe) claims to have had a "super" pinstripe that produced only pins, but has anyone else had one? My understanding is that it was visually no different, so it would be tough to say if anyone else had one, but you would think that there would be more. Are there any other dominant genes that I'm just not thinking of? So if a desert x desert were to happen and out came a super form, would that bring us back to spiders being the only dominant gene??
 
BHB(I believe) claims to have had a "super" pinstripe that produced only pins, but has anyone else had one?

see thats where I mentioned about bigger breeders not letting on to some things. I am not saying Brian is first off. In conversations I have had with breeders, they have mentioned about going to someones facility as seeing stuff first hand. In one case they had upwards of 100 visuals before letting a pair of hets out for huge dollars. If people knew how many there were the price would drop on them. Look at how far back some animals were first produced then explaine on how after all those years they don't know if a super is there? I have a dinker this year and my first move is to breed back to mom to see if I get a super form. How could you say "I produced a butter but have been busy making combos for 6 years and never tried for a super?" It makes you think a little. Is some of it for cornering the market, or is some to keep a value up in your project? There is a sale of a male bananna (produced by a male) for $50,000. How did they produce the first male that produced this male? I must admit that I am not up to date on the bananna morph since I don't have any interest in buying one right now. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping we could talk about and make educated discussing not just pass off rumors.

ps thanks Rob for the input:thumbsup:
 
The motive for all big breeders is to make money...corner the market...keep the v alue up and make as much money as they can from the begining...nothing wrong with that...sometimes it takes awhile for the bad things to get out...but eventually they do...because of money...I tend to not spend big money until morphs have dropped a little bit in price.
 
does anyone in this thread own a female desert? If so how is she doing? what are her stats?
 
This conversation has taken an interesting turn. I am of the opinion that as many spiders are out there, if there was a super form it would have shown itself by now. As to the bannana issues, as I understood it F1 males produce all female offspring. F2 males have produced male bananas, but still at a reduced rate. Someone please correct me if i am wrong, I don't have first hand knowledge.
If it seems that cooler temps aren't helping produce more viable clutches in deserts, then I personally I consider them a bust. Very intrigued by the combo desert females angle, guess only time will tell as I've not heard of any combo girls breeding. Very interesting conversation though, lets keep it going.
 
none taken Krystal, thats why I post these questions up here. Its not to try and make me look good or some one look bad, or vice versa.......its to get people talking and THINKING. It is far too easy for someone to read something and pass it along and before you know it, there it is, the word of God! I bet we could come up with a really good rumor between a couple of us here and watch it spread like a young school girl in a short dresses repitation:D I like looking at peoples pictures of locks, what they are breeding, and such......but, every now and then we need a topic to get people to actually think and converse. I am completely happy asking question that will make me look stupid to some if it gets people talking and a few beginners will learn something from it. How many people on here have been breeding only a couple years or have a very limited number of snakes? Stuff like this gives them a chance to participate and learn, not just ready "the word of God!" Sorry thats just me, I will make fun of myself if it makes others laugh. I read the forum and every now and then look for a question I can get people to talk about.

Thank you!!! <3 I feel bad saying stuff like that sometimes 'cause with only text, it can come out insulting...but I don't mean it that way! (I'm really paranoid about this now after recently having a rather large fight with a friend of mine because of this very thing. :( )

:rofl: I make fun of myself, too! It helps break the ice in socially-uncomfortable settings! Hee hee!

(Dangit, I can't give you more karma. *shakefist*) But yes, more discussions! :D

and ps Krystal, thats why I have love for ya, you always weigh in and give the topic some food for thought:bow01:

Aww, thanks! :eek: People are more than welcome to slap me upside the head, though, if I say something wrong/stupid! ;)

I think genes would have to be considered dominant until a super form is proven.

I think that's how it's done, but I don't know how many people do it this way.... I hadn't even thought about a Super Desert, for some reason....

This conversation has taken an interesting turn. I am of the opinion that as many spiders are out there, if there was a super form it would have shown itself by now.

That's my thought, too, though...now that I think about it...I probably wouldn't be surprised if, like someone mentioned, one of the big boys has one and doesn't want to let the cat (snake?) out of the bag.

As to the bannana issues, as I understood it F1 males produce all female offspring. F2 males have produced male bananas, but still at a reduced rate. Someone please correct me if i am wrong, I don't have first hand knowledge.

Bananas are going into the same category as Deserts with me, then, 'cause I didn't know about this! That's kinda cool. I haven't really been thinking about Bananas since they cost more than I get paid per year (before taxes!). Does anyone have any additional info on Bananas?

Maybe the flatline is a super desert clown?

That's an interesting thought! HMMMMM....
 
I think the main reason that a lot of people haven't tried for super spiders on their own, is mainly for the reason that a lot of people have said that it is a lethal homozygous form. Just because of word of mouth, I can guarantee you a ton of people have never even thought about trying. Until this thread, I have never even thought about it really deeply.
 
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