• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big if a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

    =====================
    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Carryover from a thread about chams going off-topic...

tknetman

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The thread this was on was going way off topic, so this looked like a more appropriate place for it. If you don't care, please forgive the intrusion. :)


What kind of chameleons did you buy? Are they CB? Are you planning on breeding them?

One pair of CB 2003 panthers and a pair of CB 2003 veilds. Until he moves the links on his page, they're the first two links here:

N. Gubitz chameleons

I will make every attempt to breed them. I'm in Massachusetts, so if they need a wintering-over period I'm out of luck. My only winter temp choices are 75 and 20. :)

Tom Kincaid
 
TO SEE WHAT I'VE SOLD!!

If any of you want to see the animals that I have sold.... all you have to do it go to the, "Animals Sold Since 02/01/03" link on the left hand column of my Website.... just click on the name and see the picture....

Neil
 
Tom I will have to say they look nice indeed. Do you happen to know who bred the panthers? I'm getting into "lizards" myself but starting slowly. Right now I have only cresteds.

Regards.
 
More pics from Neil

A few more pics he sent me while we were negotiating in case anyone is curious... I'll be taking more pics once they have a chance to adjust to their new habitat.

Pic1 Pic2
Pic3
 
The Panthers were sold to me by LLL as a 1.1 pair.... when they grew up, I was informed that they were 0.2 (as they're very hard to sex correctly).... I did a trade of one of my females for a Male by a guy who had the exact opposite happen to him.... he was sold a 1.1 pair (I don't know who he bought his from, he didn't remember, but he DID remember it WASN'T LLL) and they turned out to be 2.0....

The Veils were sold to me by A1 Reptiles as babies from different parents....

Neil
 
Well, I guess you both understand LLL Reptiles sell well established Diego Suarez panther chameleons...right?
 
What I'm wondering is if either of the involved was aware that they could potentially have been violating Massachusetts State law...

Chameleons require a permit to own. Have you got them Tom?

Chameleons require a seperate permit to be shipped into the state. Did either of you apply for one and get it approved?

Chameleons will only recieve a permit IF they are CB and there is a notarized statement from the breeder atesting to this... Does this exist?

How were the animals sent from Florida to Massachusetts?
 
Seamus Haley said:
What I'm wondering is if either of the involved was aware that they could potentially have been violating Massachusetts State law...

I was not aware that they still required a permit. I will check into that.

Thanks for the head's up!

Tom Kincaid
 
I was not aware that they still required a permit. I will check into that.

Have since at least '74.

And not just a single permit...

You need a permit to own the animals, a permit to breed if that's really your intention, a permit to sell any offspring unless you plan on keeping *all* of them and a permit to bring these guys into the state from an outside source.

There are sperate permits for individual animals in most cases... you can get a general permit for a species, but this is not as easy to do. The permits are good for a calender year, with all permits expiring on December thirty first, every year, regardless of when they were obtained.

You have to fill out a number of forms and submit detailed information about how you will be housing the animals... You also need to supply proof that they were captive bred, which it sounds like these might not be.

If they're shipped into the state without labeling them, it's also a violation of the Lacey act.



Thing here is... it's a stupid law. But it is the law... as a responsible, law abiding, permit holding herper in Massachusetts I feel the only way to change said law is by OBEYING it and establishing a degree of credibility for the industry before proposing changes to the legislation. As such is my continued position on the matter, I would feel obligated to report any illegal shipment or ownership of species which are prohibited to the appropriate law enforcement agencies. I hope I am making myself VERY clear on this point, so as to prevent any misunderstanding.

The fact that Neil would ship prohibited animals into an area where they are illegal to own without a permit... especially animals which wouldn't meet the permit guidelines anyway (As I said earlier, proof of captive production is required, as at least one of the breeders is unknown, this would be impossible) simply says something about his character and business ethics... And the lack thereof.

The fact that you were unaware that they required the permits functions as sufficient logical evidence that you do not have those which are needed. I would suggest very strongly that, if the animals have already been shipped, you quietly and discreetly move them into a state where their ownership is legal... If they haven't, you might want to request a refund.

I would also suggest that Neil do a bit more reasearch on the animals he's selling, and double check their legality prior to shipping... This could potentially come back on HIM in the form of fines and potential jail time (As the shipper) as far as Massachusetts is concerned, especially if he directly circumvented the Lacey act in order to avoid detection.
 
Seamus Haley said:
Have since at least '74.

Thing here is... it's a stupid law. But it is the law... as a responsible, law abiding, permit holding herper in Massachusetts I feel the only way to change said law is by OBEYING it and establishing a degree of credibility for the industry before proposing changes to the legislation. As such is my continued position on the matter, I would feel obligated to report any illegal shipment or ownership of species which are prohibited to the appropriate law enforcement agencies. I hope I am making myself VERY clear on this point, so as to prevent any misunderstanding.

Hi Seamus,

I don't even know if the law is all that stupid as long as the permitting process is fair and reasonable. I don't want my neighbors running around with poisonous species or killing off endangered ones without making them report to someone once in a while, though I'd think at least the better understood chams belong on the exclusion list.

I have no problem with your position at all. In the early '90's or so when I was paying attention, the NEHS was working with the state to change the law, and species I was interested in keeping were being made legal without a permit. I started seeing chams popping up in a pet store or two and erroneously jumped to the conclusion that they had been added to the exclusion list as well. Now that I'm renewing my interest in the hobby, I should have been more careful to make sure. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they say. I sincerely appreciate that you caught my error before the animals were shipped. I'll head over to the Saltonstall building on Monday and get the permits ball rolling. Hopefully it's not something that will take too long to process provided I have acceptable answers for their questions.

And, just to be clear: I am considering these animals based on their being captive bred as advertised. I have a moral objection to taking them from the wild for my purposes irrespective of the legal requirements.

PS: Were you a member of NEHS back between '88 and '94 sometime? Your name seems vaguely familliar from that time in my life, but my memory isn't very good...

Thanks again.
 
I don't even know if the law is all that stupid as long as the permitting process is fair and reasonable.

Well... the reasons behind it are questionable. It was put into place to stop the collection of wild specimins, but the illegal species are only those which "look exotic" so Chams need a permit... GTPs and ETBs... but not other species which are frequently collected (In a suatainable manner) but not as flashy. Similarly monitors require permits because they are "dangerous" but green iguanas don't... If the laws had originally been written by individuals who understood the pet trade, it would have made a world of difference in their specifics and their application.

In the early '90's or so when I was paying attention, the NEHS was working with the state to change the law, and species I was interested in keeping were being made legal without a permit

The NEHS is constantly working towards the goal of a more reasonable and well thought out application of the state laws but haven't had much progress. Chams still require permits, any shops selling them could potentially lose their liscence to operate.

I'll head over to the Saltonstall building on Monday and get the permits ball rolling. Hopefully it's not something that will take too long to process provided I have acceptable answers for their questions.

Personally I'd suggest just calling Fish and Wildlife and asking for Bob Arini, he's the individual pretty much solely responsible for the permit application process and the forms aren't used frequently enough to have on hand anywhere... If you get ahold of him, he'll happily mail everything you need and more detailed specifics about the requirements for approval. The application process time seems to vary a bit depending on how many might be lined up, but if you have your act together you'll likely get a response within a few weeks, tops. Generally quicker.

I am considering these animals based on their being captive bred as advertised.

The requirements for a permit include *proof* of captive production, which generally means a notarized statement from the breeder... But Neil indicated that the original breder of one of the animals was unknown and that some of the others came from LLL, who isn't exactly notorious for dealing in captive animals. Established animals sure... but imports are cheaper for some species.

Were you a member of NEHS back between '88 and '94 sometime? Your name seems vaguely familliar from that time in my life, but my memory isn't very good.

Yes, although my activity within the society has always been greatly limited by personal time constraints, so I wasn't particularly active... If you did remember me, it's likely just as a short bald guy in a leather jacket.
 
Seamus Haley said:
Well... the reasons behind it are questionable. ..

All true. This state can be so frustrating at times...


Personally I'd suggest just calling Fish and Wildlife and asking for Bob Arini...

Thanks very much for the tip. I'll give him a call on Monday. :)
 
Seamus,

Thanks for explaining my concern mych more eloquently than I did.

Regards.
 
Just for the record.... except for the one Male Panther (which the guy who sold him to me has had him since he was 4 weeks old), I have had the other Panther AND the pair of Veils since they were 5 weeks old.... LLL guaranteed me they ARE Captive born, as did A-! Reptiles who bred the Veils themselves.... I will contact the owner of the Male Panther to see if he can remember who he got him from.... There's very little chance that anybody imports baby Chams, it would be too hard on them and most would never make the trip alive....

Tom, if need be, I have no problem returning your money if you don't want to go through with this deal because of the permits, but, I will also be glad to hold them for you till you DO get the proper paperwork in order and do everything legally....

Neil
 
I'll make the calls to find out Monday what the timeframe for the permits and the probability of success will be. The NEHS site indicates that the permits won't be too hard to get as long as I have my act together, and I think I can convince F&W that I do. Once I have the forms and requirements in front of me we'll figure out how to proceed. See what luck you have tracking down that fourth breeder. I'll bet I need that sooner than later...

So we'll put it all on hold pending more info.
 
In case anyone Mass related is still reading...

Seamus described the process about the same as F&W did to me on the phone today. Permits are pretty easy to get if there is verifiable proof that the animals are all captive bred and if you can demonstrate that you are competent, but time consuming on the weeks to months time scale depending on how busy they are and the nature of the permit. Right now they sound like they are particularly busy for some reason.

In other news, the Asst. Director is considering whether or not to put some chameleon species on the exemption list anyway. The biggest reason they were and remain permit only was the "near 100% mortality rate" in pet stores when people were bringing in Jacksons chameleons from Hawaii full of nematodes and stuck in aquariums at high temps. Now that the industry is much more knowledgeable and captive bred animals are readily available, he's willing to revisit the issue. But he has no idea if/when the decision will be made. I got off the phone feeling like they were at least trying to do the right thing, just far more slowly than I'd like. At least I agree with the reason they were excluded from the list in the first place, even if I think they should have been added by now.

So I'll have a permit (eventually). :)

Maybe when I have my first round of babies they'll be on the exemption list and I can even sell them locally. If I can find anyone I'd trust with them. ;)
 
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