Ball Python prices, and the overall condition of the Market.

[RJK890]

There are some people that breed snakes for a living, and there are others that breed them simply for hobby.
I myself am a hobby breeder, meaning that I do not make my living selling the offspring that I produce.

To establish my collection, I aquired the best looking examples that I could find, of the base morphs that I desire to keep and work with.
Each one has the look that I like best in that particular base morph, and the look that I wanted passed on to the combos that I produce.
I selectively breed my animals based on what I would like to add to my collection, and which of my animals I think would make the best examples of those mutations.
I hold back the majority of my hatchlings, and would actually prefer to trade the others then sell them. However, sometimes I need to sell an animal for cash, in order to redistribute the funds back into my hobby. That may mean building and stocking another rodent rack, picking up another Helix DBS-1000, or simply moving out animals that I already have in my collection, in order to purchase mutations that I would like to add to my collection.

There are at least two types of "professional" snake breeders.
( You know, the ones that intend to make their living selling the offspring that they produce. )

The first type of "professional" breeder, selectively puts together their collection of snakes, by purchasing only high quality breed stock animals that have the look that they like best in that particular base morph, and the look that they want passed on to the combos that they intend to produce. These people produce high quality animals, and their prices usually reflect the high quality of their animals.
This type of breeder is often, but not exclusively, made up of hobby keepers / breeders that have decided to turn their hobby into their career.
Due to the higher quality, and therefore higher priced animals they produce, their customer base consist mainly of two types of customers.
1.) Hobby keepers / breeders that would like to turn their hobby into a career in the future, and become "professional" breeders, and are willing to purchase high quality breed stock animals.
2.) The wealthier and/or more selective hobby keepers, that can afford to, and are willing to puchase higher grade animals at higher prices for their personal collection, even though those animals are not an "investment."

The second type of "professional" breeder, puts their collection together by purchasing wholesale lots of animals, often sight unseen.
Their operation is simply a numbers game.
They mass produce animals and their customer base consists of other type 2 "professional" breeders, vending shows / show vendors, and the hobby keepers that would like to have a collection of assorted BP mutations, and would rather purchase, or can only afford to purchase the more affordable, B grade animals.

Unfortunately, there are way more animals being produced, then there are people looking to purchase those animals.
Hobby keepers/breeders, and Type 1 breeders are having to compete for the same sales, because there just are not enough buyers that are willing or able to purchase A Grade animals at high end or above market value.
Obviously, more buyers are going to purchase from the well known breeder so the Type 1 breeder gets the majority of those sales.

This leaves the hobby breeder, with the same (or better quality) animals as Type 1 breeders competing with Type 2 breeders for the remaining sales.
However, if a hobby breeder advertises their quality animals at competitive prices, in order to compete with Type 2 breeders, wholesalers, shows, and the prices that Type 1 breeders are actually selling their animals for behind the scenes, they get labeled and trashed as a "market crasher."

The supply definitely seems to exceeds the demand.

Let's try to have a civil discussion about Ball Python prices, and the condition of the market in general.
I don't think anybody is intentionally trying to crash the market of their hobby, which is more then likely a market that they themselves are invested in to some degree.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Being civil....IMO, there is NO "Market." There are simply people that have priced an animal FIRST and people have gone by that number regardless of if their animal qualifies for the price or not. There would only be a market and hence a market value if this was a regulated business,which it is not.

Therefore, people have the right to price their animals at whatever price they wish. Most don't want to rock the boat, so they will keep their animals (in public) at the same price as the "bigger guys" and this is what I have noticed...

By trying to "compete" they ensure that the "bigger guys" get their asking price as they are better known, and the "followers" usually still have animals to sell. Some of them might wise up and then start asking for a different price, at which point...it happens as stated above..."the get labeled and trashed as a "market crasher."

There is also a pyschological perspective (but it's not very civil) about people that bash others for not being followers.

That's my perspective.

 

[snakesRkewl]

The condition of the market...hmm, we produced 80 some hatchlings, kept back 2o some babies and sold everything but 3 snakes so far, in 4 months.
On top of that I helped a friend sell of 20 of his snakes, I'd say it was a wonderful market.

Produce quality snakes, provide friendly and prompt customer service and produce stuff that isn't being produced by 100,000 other people, seems simple enough

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Hmmmmmmm...I will agree there is no market...theres no Blue Book Value on snakes...no guidelines...its a free for all...Type 1 or Type 2 doesnt matter...if you are breeding to pay bills you have sell your product. If you are in for the love of the game then you are insane IMO.

I have been in the car business for 15 years now and its ran the same way...the dealership with the lowest price sells the most vehicles and you can only have a starting price that reflects what the other dealers are asking....if not the phone wont ring, people will not contact you...its that simple. Customer service adds to the price to a degree but really most of the time the only person who cares about customer service after the sale is the first time buyer. The repeat buyer has all the answers they think they need.

Lets face it....almost every breeder when deciding what to ask for a snake goes online and looks at 3 or 4 ads and prices his snake at the same price as everyone else or close to it. When it doesnt sell the price starts coming down until some interest is show or it sells.
Same thing when looking at a future project, they try to predict the future market price and decide is it worth it. If they are smart.
The only way a breeder can turn from a hobby to a career is to make enough profit to allow them to do so..re invest and take chances....the economy in a whole is in bad shape and thats why the market is soft for snakes....it is not like it was and may never be there again.

Its not going to be where the buyer ask "Whats your best price" and you can reply "Whats the most you are willing to pay and not be offended."
Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[jntreptiles]

I agree with the general consensus that there is "no market" or atleast not much of one.

This is a business that has changed drastically over the past several years, and I would like to say that technology and modernization IMO has contributed largely to the current market.

I have said this in prior posts on other threads, I can remember in 1987 when I started my business, I didn't have many of the options and amenities that are currently available to reptile enthusiasts. I didn't have reptiles magazine, the internet, and mass shows to attend as we do today.

Here in the Mid-Atlantic I could look forward to the MARS show that came around only once per year, or maybe even the little sellersville or pottstown shows. I would save all my money from sales just to attend these shows to buy some quality animals and meet some really awesome people. Now, I have a show every weekend within an easy hop, skip, and a jump from my house. That doesn't do much for the market.

Now, take the internet. Mass animals and advertisements everywhere. Now you go from competing with your local market, to competing with hundreds of vendors at a weekly show, to competing with tens of thousands of people across the country.

Technology has created a much larger market, with a lot more fish playing in a very small pond. And when the pond gets full, its gonna overflow and the run off has to go somewhere, which in turn means the market is gonna drop.

 

[Randy F]

Damn it Travis, you beat me to the blue book point! I need to read faster or you need to type slower!

You know I see mention in the quoted post about the quality of the animal......isn't health a quality to look for? Big and small breeders have been praised and scorn on here for how they take care of their animals. One example is Tom Baker, I would eat out of his snake room before most peoples kitchen. I have received a snake from **** *****, a big name breeder, and it was FULL of mites. I bought a snake from another huge name and less than a week later it was dead. I was told it was my fault for feeding it too soon and having too big of a tub! I bought a snake from a little guy and it died in shipping due to an error.....he replaced it with his holdback. Big or small, they are good guys or crooks (BOI!) . Now as another point on health and breeder size.......Do you know who brought the first wild caught spider in and who overbred it living piss out of it? I do, it was not a small breeder/hobbiest. This is one aspect I look at if I am going to buy a snake. Another I look at when selling or buying is color/pattern quality. "MARKET VALUE" is a good fair average of what it is worth. With that said, higher quality is going to cost more, as less quality will cost less. A good example is pieds.....low almost non-existent white compared to high almost all white. I try to keep a rule of thumb to sell mine at 10% below the average price, and 10% above on higher quality. Which brings you to overhead......thats a whole different post. The small breeder may need to sell some cheaper to cover rodents, or even the electricity to their house. Basically it is the same as the big breeders wholesaling. Even if someone sells a animal for half your asking price, you don't have to match it. The REAL value of your animal is what YOU value it at. We all hurt the market if it comes right down to it. How many of us have seen a cool snake to come out and run try to make one? See, everyone but that liar in the back row! If you can't afford that one, you can make it for less than half the price. Next year that snake that was selling for $4000 because there was only a handful is now $750 because there are thousands of them. Lets look at bumble bees.....who crashed the market, the guy who sold bees cheap or the masses that sold pastels and spiders cheaper? You decide the price and value of your own animal. You decide the price your willing to pay and quality you wish to receive. No-one charged you too much if you paid it. I forgot to add you have to look at the ecomony as well. When people were paying $40,000 for a snake people were also getting that money from their home loans......not today. If you are breeding for the high end snake it may take you awhile, where snakes $1000 and under sell quickly. It might be a snake market, but each morph has its own little market. Who is smarter the guy hatching 5 $10,000 snakes or the guy hatching 100 $500 snakes?