genetics?

[Bringerofdoom]

ok i i have a patternless leo thats 66% het for albino female(according to k&n) im wondering what would be better to mate it with. a albino, patternless albino, hypo or other morphs?? im just trying to think of what would make the best young. some of you seem to have the morph breeding down, so i would figure you all can advise on the best mate. thanks in advance

 

[Tribal Gecko]

Not sure if I read that right...it's early and I just got home from work...but, depending on what albino morph it is (rainwater?), I would prolly try and go with the same morph of albino. That way if it does have the patternless gene you might get a patternless albino. If it does'nt, then you will atleast get some hets out of the breeding to try again the following year. That would be my choice anyway. A patternless albino would work nice as well if you are able to get one.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

its a tremper albino het.

i thought you would say patternless albino, well i got a patternless albino male but im having serious problem with it right now and it may not make it till i get the money to take it to the vet. more than likely it probably will not live even after a vet visit. he's been sick and in quarantine scince i got him from a reptile show. i thought he would be able to produce patternless albinos if i crossed them (before i realized he was ill, i at first thought it was slightly mal nourished). i still smack myself for not seeing anything wrong with a adult patternless albino leo for $60.

needless to say that whole project is scrapped. thats why i was trying to figure out what else can she be mated with. would hyglows and similar albino morphs be worth mating with it?

 

[Tribal Gecko]

Well, I'm not sure if anybody has actually crossed a hybino / hyglow / sunglow with a patternless. The hyglow is just a selectivly bred tang albino, so crossing that would still just end you up with a paternless albino, i'm not sure how the tang would go over... if at all. One of the other breeders could probably answer that better than I. And I don't really see any reason to pay the 1000+ $ on a hyglow or sunglow. You could probably pick up a nice hybino for a few hundred...but personally I would pick up a nice 20$ tremper and go with that het of yours. Save a few hundred.

But something like the hybino's are obviously a great investment in the long run. Those are just my opinions though. Keep in mind that's not a guaranteed het...so you dont want to spend all that money on a hybino, just for that project. For the price of a hybino you could pick up several trempers and Paternless' actually to start that project. If the 66% het works out to infact be a het, that will give you a jump start, if not, you still have a nice group to start the project with. Kinda hit and miss really. You could get some gauranteed paternless / tremper hets from quite a few various breeders, and they my work out excellent as well. Get a guaranteed male, and a couple more females.

Just idea's anyway, it's your project after all

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

hmmm...

I'd either go with a Tremper albino, or a Tremper albino het for patternless.

 

[Gregg M]

Not to go off topic but, why keep an animal that you can not afford to care for if a problem comes up right away???? When it comes to reptiles, the cost to keep them goes way over the price of the animal itself...... This is something not alot of people consider when buying a "cheap" pet....... When someone buys a reptile they should be prepared to spend alot of money on its upkeep...... You should do your reptiles a favor and sell them to someone that can afford them..... And forget about looking into getting another one that will not get immediate care if needed.... And if you do not have the money for a vet visit, how the hell can you possibly have enough money to buy a hyglow or hybino???? Get your priorities straight.....

I guess your name fits you well when it comes to your reptile captives.....

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

well...

i got a patternless albino male but im having serious problem with it right now and it may not make it till i get the money to take it to the vet. more than likely it probably will not live even after a vet visit. he's been sick and in quarantine scince i got him from a reptile show. i thought he would be able to produce patternless albinos if i crossed them (before i realized he was ill, i at first thought it was slightly mal nourished).

Gregg, you are absolutely right! Apparently I did not read the thread as thoroughy as I should have...

 

[Bringerofdoom]

Gregg M, not to be rude, but you do not know my current situation or the patternless albinos situation. i normally do have the money on hand and do take my reptiles to vets, but im moving at the end of november and money is really tight right now. i have been trying to get this house for 4 months now and its going to take about all i got to get it and to move in and do some minor fixes.

also

the patternless albino was sold to me sick from the start from a reptile show where i had previously aquired a WC iggy that was full of pinworms (didnt complain about that figured my fault for getting a WC iggy). i figured for some reason this would be different it was $60 so i thought it was worth a shot, it wasnt even labled as a patternless it was right next to other regular albino's that appeared to have been clutchmates. (traded a yellow nigerean uro female and $20 for it). got it home turned out the guy lied about the wieght and everything else. the albino was 8 inches and only 31 grams not the 54 he had told me it was (figured neglect, this guy deals in over 40+ species of reptiles just at this 7 hour one day show).

i got its weight upto 43 grams, i was weighing it weekly to monitor its weight. the week prior the the last he was being bity and snappy so i skipped him that week. i observered him about a week later looking real thin again. this time i forced him into a weigh cup and weighed him to find out he now 30 grams. this has only happened this week, it isnt that im trying not to take it in. im shure some other people struggle for money too at the end of each month like it is.

the patternless albino is showing several signs of crypto, yea i know i am not a vet and therefore cant fully make that assumption.

i have been trying to get about $100 extra to take it to the vet, im shure by next week i would easily have it. im just not shure if it can live that long. this one doesnt bill and wants cash upfront if he runs over, you dont get your animal till he gets paid.

i normally stand for the upmost care of reptiles, im even mad at myself that i cant afford to take it to the vet at this moment. i dont even like commenting about it right now cause its a sore subject. do you honestly think i like watching a animal die right before my eyes? especially when it was vital part to my patternless breeding project?

i would also like to note the whole purpose of this thread was to find out what could i mate it with IF the male does not make it.

trust me everyone i intend on bringing it to the vet, that way next months show i can come in there and show him proof he ripped me.

and if anyone reading this knows about crypto please get ahold of me via pm or something. or anyone willing to try to help me keep it alive till then please om me.

 

[Xelda]

Are you sure it's a Tremper PA? Methinks it's more likely to be a Rainwater PA, in which case you wouldn't want to breed your possible Tremper het. I think you should try crossing your patternless with a tang carrottail to try to improve the coloration. It would be an awesome project.

I would like to know more details about the gecko before pointing to crypto, especially since he did get better for awhile, right? Usually with crypto, once the animal starts to decline, it's just downhill the rest of the way. If it's another parasitic infestation, you should be able to cure it easily, but he's not going to get better without treatment. Is he still eating? Does he regurgitate his meals? How are his stools looking?

By the way, $100 sounds like a lot if you just want to bring the animal in and get his feces checked. You should be able to get that done for less than $50.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

Are you sure it's a Tremper PA? Methinks it's more likely to be a Rainwater PA, in which case you wouldn't want to breed your possible Tremper het. I think you should try crossing your patternless with a tang carrottail to try to improve the coloration. It would be an awesome project.

I would like to know more details about the gecko before pointing to crypto, especially since he did get better for awhile, right? Usually with crypto, once the animal starts to decline, it's just downhill the rest of the way. If it's another parasitic infestation, you should be able to cure it easily, but he's not going to get better without treatment. Is he still eating? Does he regurgitate his meals? How are his stools looking?

By the way, $100 sounds like a lot if you just want to bring the animal in and get his feces checked. You should be able to get that done for less than $50.

i have not had him that long its been a little over a month i got him up a little over 10 grams feeding it waxworms (he ate about 4 crickets only scince i had him and refused anything else besides waxies) even then he was only eating 2-3 a day he wont even eat the waxworms now.

now he is just going downhill fast he hasnt ate anything for a week that i know of, he dont like me trying to force feed him either he will snap at me. he does not seem like himself at all. he's got a huge blue spot on its somache about as big if not bigger than my thumbnail.

the reason i said $100 the way my herp vet works is $35 for the visit and $35 for the fecal i allow $30 extra to cover basic meds. he wont do a fecal if he hasnt met the reptile in person, which this one he hasnt. if he would have seen it before, i can bring in fecals and just pay for the fecal then.

here is the picture in question

 

[Gregg M]

It could be crypto but you can not tell that from the spot on it stomach...... Any of the various parasites can cause that leo to loose weight to the point where you will see that..... If it is crypto a regular fecal will do you no good anyway....... But any of the other parasites can be found and treated faily easily...... I do not believe for one second that your vet will not do a fecal check on an animal he or she has not seen...... I have been dealing with reptile vets for years and not one has ever told me they can not do a fecal on an animal they never saw...... Most vets do not see venomous snakes but will do a fecal for me no problem if my regular vet is out of town...... Infact all of my new arrivals get a fecal done without going to a vet...... These are all just lame excuses if you ask me....... At one time I had no job while keeping reptiles and I still managed to get them to a vet if needed...... If you are buying a house you must have some sort of budget set right???? Well if you take 25 bucks from each budget, you can afford a vet visit...... Take that leo to a vet because if it is not crypto. you can fix the problem...... Even if it is crypto there is a new drug out that erradicated the crypto parasite in humans but works just as well in reptiles....... But I guess what I am saying is going in one ear and out the other....... You are going to let that one die and you will just go out and buy a hyglow or a hybino for 10 times what a vet visit will cost you......

 

[Tribal Gecko]

Actually, out of the three vet's in my area, none of them will do fecals without checking the animal out first, or if they have seen it before, in which I must bring in the papers saying they have. Bassically a way to get money and that's it, since the basic checkup is 45$ ,and then if I want the fecal that is 30$. Another annoying bit, is if the medicine is a shot, they will refuse to give me the medicine until they show me how to give the shot, which in that case, they are administering the medicine....another 20$. Even though I have done shots now several times. Granted, once I found that out, I don't bother with them anymore and go to Cornell, which is a hell of a lot better...if not one of the best in the nation. But still, the regulare vets around me do require to see the animal first. Stupid eh?

 

[Gregg M]

Well I dont buy it...... In over 20 years of keeping reptiles I have never ran into this problem...... I guess it is time for him to find a new vet then.....

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

spot

The dark area in the gecko's abdomen is it's liver. When leos are not eating for a long time, their system begins to mobilize the fat storage in their bodies and tails. These fat cells begin to clog up the liver causing it to swell, which is known as hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease). If it not too advanced, the gecko can make a full recovery if given the proper treatment for what is causing the anorexia to begin with.

Do not simply write it off as cryptosporidiosis! Anorexia is a symptom of literally ALL leopard gecko diseases... like parasitic or bacterial infections. Unfortunately, each type of infection requires it to be identified by a veterinarian and treated with the appropriate medicine. Bacterial infections are so common, and yet they cannot be identified by a routine fecal examination... a stool sample must be sent to a lab and grown as a culture and identified, then the correct antibiotic needs to be administered depending on the sensitivity of the 'bug.'

 

[Bringerofdoom]

It could be crypto but you can not tell that from the spot on it stomach...... Any of the various parasites can cause that leo to loose weight to the point where you will see that..... If it is crypto a regular fecal will do you no good anyway....... But any of the other parasites can be found and treated faily easily...... I do not believe for one second that your vet will not do a fecal check on an animal he or she has not seen...... I have been dealing with reptile vets for years and not one has ever told me they can not do a fecal on an animal they never saw...... Most vets do not see venomous snakes but will do a fecal for me no problem if my regular vet is out of town...... Infact all of my new arrivals get a fecal done without going to a vet...... These are all just lame excuses if you ask me....... At one time I had no job while keeping reptiles and I still managed to get them to a vet if needed...... If you are buying a house you must have some sort of budget set right???? Well if you take 25 bucks from each budget, you can afford a vet visit...... Take that leo to a vet because if it is not crypto. you can fix the problem...... Even if it is crypto there is a new drug out that erradicated the crypto parasite in humans but works just as well in reptiles....... But I guess what I am saying is going in one ear and out the other....... You are going to let that one die and you will just go out and buy a hyglow or a hybino for 10 times what a vet visit will cost you......

A. yes my herp vet does make me bring new new reptiles so he can thouroughly examine them. yes there are several other herp vets in my area, but out of them all this one seems to know his stuff.

B. most of my new arrivals get vet checks too, as a matter of fact i have spent almost $700 this year on vet visits between my reptiles and mammals. all, but 2 of my leo's have been to a vet (the patternless albino and one my g/f got 2 weeks after him)

C. i only asked about a hlygo/hybino/sunglow out of curiosity if would be any good to mate with. i didnt say i was going to buy one. i was wondering on how those albino genes would be passed scince my whole topic was on genetics.

Gregg i dont even know why your arguing with me and trying to say i am lying. i guess its popular with fauna to assume everyone is B.S'ing all the time, but i am not. if i didnt care about him or i didnt want it and would let it die anyways i would bag him up and freeze him alive, i shure wouldnt let him suffer to death. My name maybe bringerofdoom on here, but it should not be associated with my care of animals.

i was not expecting him to be sick, 2 of my future leo breeders came from petco out of all the places and they were proven fine by a vet (i know, big shock to me too) needless to say i was stubborn at first and figured that he was just neglected. to me its bad timing that it happend right now, but as i said before i do plan on getting it to the vet next week. i have tried everything this week to get it to the vet (even tried to borrow money for it, reguardless of the ammount).

next week will be a different story, cause i know ill get more money then, i run my own computer repair shop out of my home. the first 2 weeks of every month seem to boom i get some pc sales and a bunch of repairs done. the last 2 weeks can be slow and october was THE slowest month out of my year, so far. im hoping it should be soon when ill be able to get to the vet as i have done one repair yesterday-today and i should be leaving soon for a onsite repair. i only whish i was able to get away with charging what most pro pc repair shops charge i would have the money already. (you know 30-50$ dianostic fee + work, i only charge for the work). needless to say i have to go and try to make some more money.

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and help, i hope he can get better after i get him to the vet this week.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

what type of albino is this anyways? like i said i dont know the guy i dont think knew either, scince it was priced the same and right beside other albino's that were patterned. they looked like they were all clutchmates, but this one was clearly patternless.

also this is a picture i took the moment i got home from the show, so the stuff in the deli cup i didnt put in it.

 

[Tribal Gecko]

wow...what show was this at? It's amazing how some people can actually sell animals that look this malnurished

 

[Bringerofdoom]

wow...what show was this at? It's amazing how some people can actually sell animals that look this malnurished

all ohio reptile show in columbus ohio. i thought it looked a little thin i asked about the weight they told me it was about 50 grams, still would have been thin. when i got it home and seen it wieghed only 32 grams i was mad. i wasnt paying full attention at the time, cause of eveyone cramming this booth.

i dont know the vendor, i do know they sell imports. if anyone is ever in my town and at that show Avoid the large 300+repitle booth in the back left corner of the show. they setup there in that same spot every months.

i dont know about everyone else, but when someone lies about the wieght of a reptile it should be considered a deal breaker especially when 7 grams less and it would have been half of what he said. granted 50 grams is still not as much as they should be weighing at that size, but its alot better than 32 grams.

i just hope after the vet visit he will be better.

 

[Xelda]

After you've raised a few leos, it's pretty easy to closely estimate how much one weighs just by looking. There's no way a 30 gram leo could ever pass for a 50 gram leo. For an animal as small as a leo, the difference is huge. The tail is significantly thicker, the shape of the head changes; it's just impossible to mix them up.

That also doesn't look like a patternless albino to me just because of the patterning on the head and tail. Being malnourished, his natural colors are probably very faint. You won't see what he really looks like until he's healthy again.

 

[Tribal Gecko]

I was gonna say the same thing about it not looking like a patternless albino to me really, do to the colors on the head and tail. I think once you get him rolling though, and he gets healthy it will be a nice looking leo regardless. Good luck.